stevelabny
Explorer
I somehow missed this post and just noticed it now...But it needs a response.
Maybe I didnt make myself clear. It wasnt an off-hand denouncement. It was a disagreement without a full-length rebuttal. I am very familiar with BOB COSTAS and his VILE BASEBALL PURIST CLAP-TRAP. But since a disagreement without a full rebuttal apparently holds no weight with you, you just won a long post with lots of FACTS. Let's look at Bob Costas' opinions.
1> Bob hates the designated hitter: Bob and other "purists" who want to remove the DH will tell you that it ruins the "strategy" of the NL game. BUT there is no strategy involved in pitching to a hitter with a sub .100 batting average. Any FIVE YEAR OLD can tell you when to punch-hit for a pitcher and how to make a double switch. It is not rocket science or complicated strategy. It involves more strategy to pitch around NINE capable hitters all game.
2> Bob hates interleague play: But it continues to make tons of money. Clearly Bob either thinks his opinion matters more than the average fans OR he wants baseball to not make money. It doesn't devalue the World Series at all.
3> Bob hates the wildcard: Bob has actually back-tracked a bit on this one. First he wanted it removed, but I beleive now he has decided "re-structured" is a better word. Why the softening? Because he realizes that the extra round of playoffs and having more teams be alive in the playoff chase actually makes even more money than interleague play. The wildcard is 100% necessary. Baseball STILL has the least amount of teams make the playoffs and you will never see a sub-.500 team get in like you have in football and basketball and hockey. ( I cant find facts to back this one up. It has pushed my Googling beyond my limits. I know for sure that .500 teams have made it in football and possibly one 7-9 team. I'm sure under .500 teams have made it in hockey. I'm pretty sure that its also happened in basketball and never in baseball but not positive)
Teams not in the top 10 in payroll...
this year (as per espn's july 15th tally) twins, a's, marlins and the cubs were 10th. the astros, royals and white sox were all alive the last week and not in the top 10.
last year: (as per azcentral.com opening day tally) twins, a's, angels, and the giants were 10th.
2001: (as per cnnsi opening day): a's astros and the mariners were 10th.
2000: (as per cnnsi final total)mariners, white sox, a's, giants
I used whichever page came up first on google. As you can see. over the last four years only 47% (15 of 32) of playoff teams came from the top 10 payrolls (which means 53% of the playoff teams werent in the top 10 which is very far from your "FACT" of 8%.) The number goes down to 37% if you cut it to top 9 payrolls. To make my point even clearer. 47% of the top 9 payrolls DID NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS in the last four years. So having a huge payroll gives you only slightly better than a 50/50 shot at making the playoffs.
This is also untrue. Lets look at the Marlins.
C: Ivan Rodriguez was a bought and paid for free agent.
1B: Derrek Lee was brought up as a Dodger and came over when the Marlins dumped Kevin Browns contract after 97.
2B: Castillo is homegrown.
SS: Gonzalez is homegrown.
3B: Lowell came up from the Yankees system, but they acquired him for prospects (but most of those came from the Astros for Moises Alou, so you cant even argue that the prospects were homegrown).
OF: Encarnacion came over from Cincy for Ryan Dempster. Dempster was originally in the minor leagues with Texas.
OF: Jeff Conine came over in a midseason trade.
OF: Miguel Cabrera is homegrown
OF: Juan Pierre came over from the Rockies for Preston Wilson who came over from the Mets for Mike Piazza...you get the idea.
RP: Looper is home-grown but Urbina was a mid-season trade.
SP: Redman came from Detroit, Pavano from Montreal. Penny spent most of his minor league time with the DBacks before coming over in the Matt Mantei trade. Dontrelle Willis spent half of his minor league time with the Cubs before coming over in the Matt Clement deal. Beckett is home grown.
Thats only a 2B,SS,one OF, 1/2 a closer and one starter fully homegown. And two starters half home-grown.
Compare this to the Yankees where Posada, Jeter, Williams, Rivera, Pettitte and Johnson were all actually drafted by the Yankees. And Soriano came up through their system after two years in Japan after he was undrafted. And Juan Rivera has also only worn pinstripes if you want to count him.
Thats a C,1B,2B,SS,one OF, 1/2 OF, closer and one starter.
So the truth of this matter is that the Marlins are less homegrown and have more free agents and trade acquistions than the Yankees. And the ONLY reason the Yanks payroll is so high (before this week) is because they have paid to resign their core players who have won numerous rings.
But hey, it also proves that like the Marlins, ANY team can combine free agents, trades and some homegrown talent to make a championship team. Nothing wrong with that.
Ok, but only ONE other sport has as big a following or revenue. So throw all the rest of them out the window because they obviously arent run as well. Your only comparison is to football. MANY people are saying that PARITY is hurting football right now as there are no dominant teams and no team stays good for more than one or two years. But even still there are two simple reasons why football has overcome baseball as the nations pasttime: GAMBLING and the simple fact that society has changed. people now prefer the rougher contact sport, and more importantly THE SCHEDULE. having games only ONE DAY a week and monday nights is HUGE. the average person is much busier and has less of an attention span than they did in years past. Baseball isnt run the best way, or even the right way, but its run better than every other sport than football. And footballs main advantage is the way it has marketed itself. As proven above, baseball's salary structure is NOT a problem.
Not sure if this is fact either. The salary cap in football has cause major problems with teams keeping players. After winning a few playoff games, or god forbid, a Super Bowl, teams are force to dismantle themselves. They simply cannot afford to keep their good players for a second contract. This is insane and is a major concern among football fans, players and executives. Its possible that turnover is slighty worse in baseball without a cap, but to gloss over the fact that football has the same problem is a mistake. Football has owners who CAN'T afford to re-sign their players under the cap, baseball has owners who WON'T re-sign players because they would rather pocket their profits and whatever luxury taxes and cut of the television money they get from the Yankees.
Your comment about it not being easy on the player's and the families is silly especially since all your posts imply that you are against high player salaries. You would think a multi-million salary would make any amount of re-locating EASY for the player and their families.
Actually people who post facts with incorrect or incomplete information are sickening. Baseball is just an entertainment business with no obligation to you. To continue to bring up a strike that is 10 years old is sad. Do you also hold grudges against other worker's unions that strike? How dare workers ask for better wages and benefits when they should be entertaining or servicing you? Get off your high horse please.
Is that a clear enough rebuttal?
Michael Morris said:
Maybe I didnt make myself clear. It wasnt an off-hand denouncement. It was a disagreement without a full-length rebuttal. I am very familiar with BOB COSTAS and his VILE BASEBALL PURIST CLAP-TRAP. But since a disagreement without a full rebuttal apparently holds no weight with you, you just won a long post with lots of FACTS. Let's look at Bob Costas' opinions.
1> Bob hates the designated hitter: Bob and other "purists" who want to remove the DH will tell you that it ruins the "strategy" of the NL game. BUT there is no strategy involved in pitching to a hitter with a sub .100 batting average. Any FIVE YEAR OLD can tell you when to punch-hit for a pitcher and how to make a double switch. It is not rocket science or complicated strategy. It involves more strategy to pitch around NINE capable hitters all game.
2> Bob hates interleague play: But it continues to make tons of money. Clearly Bob either thinks his opinion matters more than the average fans OR he wants baseball to not make money. It doesn't devalue the World Series at all.
3> Bob hates the wildcard: Bob has actually back-tracked a bit on this one. First he wanted it removed, but I beleive now he has decided "re-structured" is a better word. Why the softening? Because he realizes that the extra round of playoffs and having more teams be alive in the playoff chase actually makes even more money than interleague play. The wildcard is 100% necessary. Baseball STILL has the least amount of teams make the playoffs and you will never see a sub-.500 team get in like you have in football and basketball and hockey. ( I cant find facts to back this one up. It has pushed my Googling beyond my limits. I know for sure that .500 teams have made it in football and possibly one 7-9 team. I'm sure under .500 teams have made it in hockey. I'm pretty sure that its also happened in basketball and never in baseball but not positive)
Michael Morris said:
Teams not in the top 10 in payroll...
this year (as per espn's july 15th tally) twins, a's, marlins and the cubs were 10th. the astros, royals and white sox were all alive the last week and not in the top 10.
last year: (as per azcentral.com opening day tally) twins, a's, angels, and the giants were 10th.
2001: (as per cnnsi opening day): a's astros and the mariners were 10th.
2000: (as per cnnsi final total)mariners, white sox, a's, giants
I used whichever page came up first on google. As you can see. over the last four years only 47% (15 of 32) of playoff teams came from the top 10 payrolls (which means 53% of the playoff teams werent in the top 10 which is very far from your "FACT" of 8%.) The number goes down to 37% if you cut it to top 9 payrolls. To make my point even clearer. 47% of the top 9 payrolls DID NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS in the last four years. So having a huge payroll gives you only slightly better than a 50/50 shot at making the playoffs.
Michael Morris said:
This is also untrue. Lets look at the Marlins.
C: Ivan Rodriguez was a bought and paid for free agent.
1B: Derrek Lee was brought up as a Dodger and came over when the Marlins dumped Kevin Browns contract after 97.
2B: Castillo is homegrown.
SS: Gonzalez is homegrown.
3B: Lowell came up from the Yankees system, but they acquired him for prospects (but most of those came from the Astros for Moises Alou, so you cant even argue that the prospects were homegrown).
OF: Encarnacion came over from Cincy for Ryan Dempster. Dempster was originally in the minor leagues with Texas.
OF: Jeff Conine came over in a midseason trade.
OF: Miguel Cabrera is homegrown
OF: Juan Pierre came over from the Rockies for Preston Wilson who came over from the Mets for Mike Piazza...you get the idea.
RP: Looper is home-grown but Urbina was a mid-season trade.
SP: Redman came from Detroit, Pavano from Montreal. Penny spent most of his minor league time with the DBacks before coming over in the Matt Mantei trade. Dontrelle Willis spent half of his minor league time with the Cubs before coming over in the Matt Clement deal. Beckett is home grown.
Thats only a 2B,SS,one OF, 1/2 a closer and one starter fully homegown. And two starters half home-grown.
Compare this to the Yankees where Posada, Jeter, Williams, Rivera, Pettitte and Johnson were all actually drafted by the Yankees. And Soriano came up through their system after two years in Japan after he was undrafted. And Juan Rivera has also only worn pinstripes if you want to count him.
Thats a C,1B,2B,SS,one OF, 1/2 OF, closer and one starter.
So the truth of this matter is that the Marlins are less homegrown and have more free agents and trade acquistions than the Yankees. And the ONLY reason the Yanks payroll is so high (before this week) is because they have paid to resign their core players who have won numerous rings.
But hey, it also proves that like the Marlins, ANY team can combine free agents, trades and some homegrown talent to make a championship team. Nothing wrong with that.
Michael Morris said:
Ok, but only ONE other sport has as big a following or revenue. So throw all the rest of them out the window because they obviously arent run as well. Your only comparison is to football. MANY people are saying that PARITY is hurting football right now as there are no dominant teams and no team stays good for more than one or two years. But even still there are two simple reasons why football has overcome baseball as the nations pasttime: GAMBLING and the simple fact that society has changed. people now prefer the rougher contact sport, and more importantly THE SCHEDULE. having games only ONE DAY a week and monday nights is HUGE. the average person is much busier and has less of an attention span than they did in years past. Baseball isnt run the best way, or even the right way, but its run better than every other sport than football. And footballs main advantage is the way it has marketed itself. As proven above, baseball's salary structure is NOT a problem.
Michael Morris said:
Not sure if this is fact either. The salary cap in football has cause major problems with teams keeping players. After winning a few playoff games, or god forbid, a Super Bowl, teams are force to dismantle themselves. They simply cannot afford to keep their good players for a second contract. This is insane and is a major concern among football fans, players and executives. Its possible that turnover is slighty worse in baseball without a cap, but to gloss over the fact that football has the same problem is a mistake. Football has owners who CAN'T afford to re-sign their players under the cap, baseball has owners who WON'T re-sign players because they would rather pocket their profits and whatever luxury taxes and cut of the television money they get from the Yankees.
Your comment about it not being easy on the player's and the families is silly especially since all your posts imply that you are against high player salaries. You would think a multi-million salary would make any amount of re-locating EASY for the player and their families.
Michael Morris said:
Actually people who post facts with incorrect or incomplete information are sickening. Baseball is just an entertainment business with no obligation to you. To continue to bring up a strike that is 10 years old is sad. Do you also hold grudges against other worker's unions that strike? How dare workers ask for better wages and benefits when they should be entertaining or servicing you? Get off your high horse please.
Is that a clear enough rebuttal?
