Bashing two heads together - how would you do it?

[Painfully]

I had a new player in one of my groups last night who was playing D&D for the first time as a 4th-level half-orc barbarian.

In combat, she is facing two enemy halfling rogues adjescent to each other and she says she wants to bash their heads together. How would you handle this?

My solution was to use a touch attack on each opponent (knowing that she couldn't really attack two opponents at 4th-level yet), and then allow each halfing an opposed strength roll against the half-orc to "escape" before getting their heads collapsed.

Besides the two attacks I allowed her, does all this sound correct? Should I no longer allow this until she gets two attacks per round?

Cinematic effects made this a highlight of the evening, and was one of many similar moments when the new player not knowing the rules actually made this a very fun and interesting session, but I did feel like I bent the rules in a few places to keep things more fun. [had i been using action dice, she certainly would have gotten one for showing off ]

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And a follow-up question: Are there any easy ways to handle things like body slams, or throwing your opponent across the room (both of which also occured in the same game). Or is grapple the only real mechanic for all these things?

 

[Shallown]

You bent and broke the rules but if you had fun who cares. Cinimatic is hard to do in D&D but as long as you follow some simple rules it all works.
1) What happens to NPC's can and should on occasion happen to players.
2) consistance counts for a lot, same rule always applies even if you made the rule up yourself.
3) Have fun. As long as it seems fair it is.

later

 

[Mal-2]

In combat, she is facing two enemy halfling rogues adjescent to each other and she says she wants to bash their heads together. How would you handle this?

I would have had her attempt to grapple both the halflings. If she succeeded in grabbing both of them, I'd allow her to do standard unarmed damage to each of them.

That would allow her to make an extra attack, but the limitation is that if either one of them escaped the grapple, (either via the AoO, missing on the touch attack, or failing to hold the grapple) she wouldn't do any damage to either of them.

And a follow-up question: Are there any easy ways to handle things like body slams, or throwing your opponent across the room (both of which also occured in the same game). Or is grapple the only real mechanic for all these things?

Not really. Depending on what you're trying to do, a Bull Rush might simulate a body slam, or anything else that moves someone around. If you're trying to knock someone down, you can use the Trip mechanics. Otherwise, any of those things should probably be handled as either grappling or an unarmed attack.

Mal-2

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Just because she can't do two attacks in one round doesn't mean she can't do what she wanted. I think I would have her grapple each enemy separately (taking two rounds), and then use the rules for inflicting damage in a grapple.

I don't know what I would have done though, if I had to come up with something on my feet. I like the way you handled it, because most DMs would have simply said "You can't do that," which is SUPER BORING.

Other ways of handling it might be to let her attempt the double attack (despite the rules), and just heap up circumstance modifiers to make it approprately unlikely to succeed. It is, after all, a very difficult kind of attack, it seems to me.

 

[Mista Collins]

She could of done it with the rules in hand (pun intended). Now bare with me as I try and break this down.

She is trying the following:

1. Attacking with both of her hands (in order to grab two heads)
2. Hold onto the heads
3. Smash them together

Here are some rules that might help:

1. She would be attacking unarmed (those provoking AoO)
2. She is attacking with two weapons (two hands) thus receiving a -6 penalty and a -8 penalty (off hand weapon is light).
3. Since it is a grapple she would make two touch attacks.

Here some house rules I would use:

1. The touch attack AC is a little higher because she is going for the head and the head is smaller than the halfling's. In a since she is doing a called shot. I would rule the head of a halfling is tiny, since the halfling is small.
2. I would have the halflings do opposed strength (or grapple) checks. The Half-orc would only get 1/2 her strength mod on the second one because it is her off-hand.
3. The damage would be greater than a normal unarmed strike. (1d6+Orc's strength mod)
4. If she beat only one halfling's opposed strength (or grapple) check she would do 1d3 points of damage

This might be how I would handle it. It sounds very cinematic and i would not tell a player he/she could not attempt it because that would ruin the fun. I let a halfling character attempt to shove a flask of acid down a troll's troat once. It was fun to watch the troll start screaming when his insides were melting away.

BC

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If the barbarian had a BAB of +6 I would allow it IMC. That looks like a feat that only really skilled fighters or barbarians could pull off.

Don't forget to take Improved Grapple to avoid the AoOs if you really like this tactic

 

[Pielorinho]

It's so way cool that I'd allow it with the following rolls:

AoOs from each halfing. Whether or not they succeed:
1 Touch attack from the barbarian, applied against each halfling's touch AC.
If either fails, the maneuver fails. If they both succeed:
1 Grapple attempt from the barbarian, opposed by each rogue. If both rogues beat the barbarian's grapple attempt, the barbarian doesn't accoplish anything. If either one fails, then the barbarian manages to smack their heads together, doing unarmed damage to each. If both fail their attempts, they both take unarmed damage and must make a fort save equal to 10+damage taken or be stunned for the next round.

Those rules are courtesy of my butt. They would require 6 d20 rolls (two AoOs, one touch attack, three grapples), still less than some alternatives; the'd make the maneuver risky; and they'd allow for a cool and unique payoff if the barbarian did espeically well (stunning both rogues).

Daniel

 

[Delgar]

Basically I would do nothing.

If the character attacked two foes with unarmed attacks and dropped them both unconcious, I would describe it as smashing their heads together.

Personally I don't really think there is any need for more rules to describe combat maneuvers. Just a little descripitve creativity can go a long way.

Delgar

 

[AeroDm]

And a follow-up question: Are there any easy ways to handle things like body slams, or throwing your opponent across the room (both of which also occured in the same game). Or is grapple the only real mechanic for all these things? [/B]

I ruled that in order to throw someone you made a Bull Rush attempt. The opposed strength roll was 5, 10, or 15 depending on if it was a light, medium, or heavy load for you. This seemed really simple and elegant considering you throw them at least 5 feet (assumedly) and can get some cool scenes of 20+ feet.

Of course, you need to get them first, so probably grapple. I think 3.5 may have actually covered this in their grapple section. I'll have to check later.

 

[Pielorinho]

Basically I would do nothing.

If the character attacked two foes with unarmed attacks and dropped them both unconcious, I would describe it as smashing their heads together.

My problem with this approach is that it doesn't give the player the flexibility to try cool maneuvers -- it makes it feel that the window dressing is irrelevant.

I'd much rather reward a player who tries an unusual maneuver by granting them some unusual bonus, an opportunity to gain an unusual benefit. In my example, the character takes the risk of two AoOs; in exchange, they gain the ability to stun two opponents simultaneously, a benefit such a PC otherwise cannot gain. It's not a huge benefit, but it makes the player feel all smart and stuff for trying something unusual.

Daniel