D&D 5E Basic already surprising us.

[Li Shenron]

I'm not entirely sure how this rule from Backgrounds is supposed to be applied: "If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead."

The most charitable reading would seem to imply that my Cleric who knows Insight and Religion can go and take Acolyte, and then take *any* two skills... Perception and Stealth, maybe?



Cheers,
Roger

Yes.

After all, you could just "customize" the background and take 2 different skills anyway.

 

[MortalPlague]

A +1-3 bonus to initiative is not flavorful.

On average, if you're acting faster than the rest of the party, it can be flavorful. Makes your character feel battle-ready and quick to realize when swords are needed.

The reverse can also be true. We have a character in our game who routinely goes last. His character has become known as 'Slow Calder'.

Just as important as the flavor aspect, initiative can be a huge deal in 5th Edition. Give that to a DEX fighter and watch them drop an opponent before they can act on the first round of most combats.

 

[Agamon]

A Long Rest of 8 hours can have up to 1 hour of interruptions and still be valid.

I thought this too, but was corrected here a while back. It's not one hour of everything listed, it's one hour of walking or any amount of the other activities listed will interrupt the rest.

 

[Psikerlord#]

So I was nerding out and reading Harbinger of Doom's blog and ran into an interesting comment. Someone pointed out that since initiative is a dexterity check, the champion fighter's "Remarkable Athlete" ability should add it's bonus to initiative checks, and that seems to be correct from what I read. If true I find it to be 1) flavorful and 2) encouraging. I've seen a couple of posts pointing out how horrible that ability is, and seeing something like this shows that maybe the designers thought these classes through more carefully than they are being given credit for. I know that I am going to make a point of trying to read these rules without preconceptions. It is way too easy to assume that something that looks similar to your edition of choice is exactly the same when it isn't.

So has anyone else noticed any unexpected rules quirks? Here's one I came up with. A strength based two-weapon rogue who picks up expertise in athletics can get a pretty huge bonus on checks to trip an opponent, and then gets advantage on attacking them while prone = auto sneak attack . Combined with the versatile background system it could allow your skill monkey to potentially have a very different ability score and skills spread than usual. Really loving the ability to make such customized and unique characters just in the basic rules.

Your turn!

I like both of these a lot. Its cool for fighters to react a little more quickly when the brawlin' starts.

**Spoiler**
I cant really think of a good surprise in basic. But the wraith in the starter set has an old school feeling energy drain attack - make a con save or lose the hp damage from your max hp until you have a long rest. Reminds me of 2e, wraiths etc are to be feared - but not so devastating as losing a whole level! (2e: what you got? Dragons, beholders, giants - yeah no worries, bring 'em on. What? Spectres? Wooooo nobody said anything about level drain, yo. Find another adventuring party pal!!")

 

[Sadras]

A level 20 fighter can do anything impressive that doesn't involve hitting things with their weapon. Rogues too for that matter. On the flipside, holy crap can spells do incredible and frankly amazing things. The experience of playing a level 20 wizard is completely and utterly different from playing a level 1 wizard.

I suspect, the kind of class-power balance you are seeking or wuxia-style play will most likely be found from modules in the DMG or supplements. Where perhaps the fighter can trade in one of their attacks for a Wuxia-style Maneuverer/Power.

The other option, would have been to tone down magic, where the spell-casters are a little more fighty and their magic a little less magicky.

Some advice in the DMG to be offered to decrease the power of magic in a campaign setting:
One could eliminate or the "game-changing" spells - invisibility, fly, resurrection..etc
OR one could allow spells up until 3rd level, but the ability to cast 1-3rd level in higher spell slots - so effectively you can cast the same spells, they just become more powerful. And maybe sprinkle the ritual versions of spells of 4th-9th or any combination thereof.

 

[Capricia]

I suspect, the kind of class-power balance you are seeking or wuxia-style play will most likely be found from modules in the DMG or supplements. Where perhaps the fighter can trade in one of their attacks for a Wuxia-style Maneuverer/Power.

The other option, would have been to tone down magic, where the spell-casters are a little more fighty and their magic a little less magicky.

Some advice in the DMG to be offered to decrease the power of magic in a campaign setting:
One could eliminate or the "game-changing" spells - invisibility, fly, resurrection..etc
OR one could allow spells up until 3rd level, but the ability to cast 1-3rd level in higher spell slots - so effectively you can cast the same spells, they just become more powerful. And maybe sprinkle the ritual versions of spells of 4th-9th or any combination thereof.

It's kind of funny how "wuxia" has become a dogwhistle for "anime I can't stand".

And no, I don't want wuxia. I want what was promised two years ago by Mike Mearls in the article about fighter design goals.

http://www.wizards.com/Dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120430

The battle master is already going to have a fully functional maneuver system. Combat is one of those areas that I don't really see the fighter as needing much help. Yes, high level combat should not be fighters pointlessly wailing against enemies with such defenses that they can barely make a dint while wizards cast nosave spells that win the encounter. But that can be fixed easily enough.

I'm more concerned with the extremely static nature of the fighter and rogue. They're the same as they level up, just with bigger numbers. Going from +5 to +11 with your athletics checks over the course of 20 levels is just embarrassing.

A high level fighter should be flat out immune to most effects that would cripple or kill others. She should be strong enough to rip the arm off of a troll and shatter admantite shackles. Legendary magical items like Exacaliber and Gae Bulg should be drawn to her, and only someone like her should be able to use them to their full potential. She shouldn't have any trouble turning a village into a powerful miltia, some of which will volunteer as her personal followers. Unlike the wizard who needs to spend most of their treasure on studying magic just to keep up, the fighter should have plenty of gold for parties, castles, and a wide array of magical items. A fighter should be able to outrun just about anything, and when they jump, the main limit should be their sight, not their legs.

All that said...you can have a fighter that does all of this and you still wouldn't break the game. All these things and more can already be easily recreated with spellcasting. None of them needs to actually translate to a significant increase in the fighter's combat ability. I don't want the fighter to be so good at fighting that they make the other classes redundant in combat. I just don't want to be the bmx bandit.

 

[Juriel]

Having class abilities that are overshadowed by lv1 spells/magic items is just embarrassing.

If monster HP goes up at 3e rates, oh boy, so much for combat effectiveness, too (since you're still punching them one at a time, while Wizard yawns and goes save-or-suck or Wall of Stones himself a keep).

 

[Ritorix]

Using Darkvision means Wisdom (Perception) checks are at Disadvantage.

You just blew my mind with that one. Yep, darkvision makes you see as if the area were lightly obscured, which gives disadvantage on perception, which means someone sneaking around in the dark will rarely be found even by someone with darkvision (-5 to passive perception).

Then again, dim light still lets you 'see', and you can't be seen to remain hiding. So maybe darkvision acts as stealth-cancellation within its range. That makes the wood elf ability to hide while lightly obscured more valuable.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

A high level fighter should be flat out immune to most effects that would cripple or kill others. She should be strong enough to rip the arm off of a troll and shatter admantite shackles. Legendary magical items like Exacaliber and Gae Bulg should be drawn to her, and only someone like her should be able to use them to their full potential. She shouldn't have any trouble turning a village into a powerful miltia, some of which will volunteer as her personal followers. Unlike the wizard who needs to spend most of their treasure on studying magic just to keep up, the fighter should have plenty of gold for parties, castles, and a wide array of magical items. A fighter should be able to outrun just about anything, and when they jump, the main limit should be their sight, not their legs.

What's particularly sad is that none of this would require anything that people claim was "wrong" with 4E Fighters. No "disassociated mechanics"/CaGI or the like, just rules that actually make a Fighter a force to be reckoned with, rather than a class where entire class abilities are easily replaced by low-end magic items.

 

[Teataine]

just rules that actually make a Fighter a force to be reckoned with, rather than a class where entire class abilities are easily replaced by low-end magic items.

Having class abilities that are overshadowed by lv1 spells/magic items is just embarrassing.

If monster HP goes up at 3e rates, oh boy, so much for combat effectiveness, too (since you're still punching them one at a time, while Wizard yawns and goes save-or-suck or Wall of Stones himself a keep).

You're both implying some heavy stuff.
First of all, we haven't seen all the magic items and monsters yet.

Second, magic items are not a necessary part of the game anyway.

Third, the fighter in the playtest was absolutely a force to be reconed with. They since removed the "you can't die from HP damage, ever" mechanic, but the rest remains largely the same.

Fourth, in Phandelver (and posted on this forum) is a lvl 4 monster that is imune or resistant to most elemental damage, has advantage on saves vs. spells and is imune to a number of conditions. No blasting it with fireballs or "save-or-sucking" it. A sword to the face is by far the most effective way of dealing with it.

Fifth, besides the fact that we haven't seen monster saves etc yet, here's what we do know: Concentration deals with many save-or-suck issues, becuase you can only keep it "on" for one monster or monster group at a time, and it can be disrupted. So unless you're fighting a solitary monster, it will be more a tactical tool/consideration than a combat-ender. Additionally we do know that legendary solo monsters will have mechanics that will let them shake off effects, make multiple saves or whatever, just like 4E solos.

This is not 3E.