Batman: The Killing Joke -- crap

[megamania]

Considering the number of issues involved Bendis' Ultimate Spider-man should count.


With the exception of Moore's Swamp-Thing i can't think of a good run that extended beyond 12 issues.

 

[GreyLord]

To tell the truth most of what I've read over the past 5 years has been junk. There's pretty art, but terrible storytelling with no real flow and jerky jumps from frame to frame.

The best stories I read were actually in the mid to late 90s. The Ultimate series of comics had a bright star, but overall the comicbooks have gone a LONG ways downhill. I believe subscriptions have gone down accordingly.

When wondering WHY...I put it squarly on the downhill trend of the writing in comics (artists are not always good writers), but unfortunately, even as readership dwindles, the comicbooks don't catch on to this.

They're simply hoping that the success with their movie franchises (making more money then the comic books themselves these days) translates into comic book sales. They are still waiting, which should say something about them and their ideas about comics.

 

[Goodsport]

Something else Killing Joke did that has not been mentioned was the "senceless" attempted killing of barbara Gordon. The Joker knew her as Comm. Gordon's daughter, not as Bat Woman. His shooting and paralyzing of her was at the time shocking.

Good point, though you probably meant Batgirl rather than Bat Woman (Batwoman?).

Those were two completely separate characters.


-G

 

[Welverin]

I have not read Powers but I intend to.

I like Powers, though it's release has become flaky.

Scarlet, a creator owned book by Bendis and Maleev has been really good so far.

Identity Crisis by DC was very good and different though it borrowed from the 1980's Squadron Supreme a lot.

I second this.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I really liked a lot of the Infinite Crisis leadup series, like the OMAC Project* and Villains Unlimited. And I really, really liked Secret Six. Dammit.

* - Poor Blue Beetle.

Brad

 

[Kaodi]

If Watchmen must arguably be understood in historical context, how well does the Watchmen movie recreate this context vis a vis current superhero movies?

 

[Jhaelen]

Watchmen, I think it's because what made it stand out at the time has become the norm in the intervening decades so it didn't seem as revolutionary as it would have to people who read it when it was new.

Well, if what made Watchmen such a great comic has become the norm, I'd definitely like to read one of these more recent masterpieces. I guess it should be easy to make recommendations?

Myself, I read Watchmen the first time in 1995 and I've yet to find another comic that is equally good. Note, that I'm not closely following the comic scene, so it wouldn't surprise me if I missed something great.

 

[Mallus]

I'll interject, three things by JMS: Midnight Nation, Rising Stars ,and Supreme Power/Squadron Supreme (unfortunately he didn't finish this).

I read and enjoyed Rising Stars, but I wouldn't put it Watchman's league. I remember something recent-ish (2003-2004) that I liked a lot: Darwyn Cooke's The New Frontier which reminded me of a cross between Paul Dini's excellent animated DC stuff and a much less bleak Watchmen.

I suppose Jeff Smith's Bone is a bit old to qualify for today (and has nary a super hero in it), but it's my favorite comic ever.

Bone has been on my to-read list for years, along withe the first few phone books worth of Sim's Cerebus the Aadvark.

To tell the truth most of what I've read over the past 5 years has been junk. There's pretty art, but terrible storytelling with no real flow and jerky jumps from frame to frame.

The thing I've noticed w/contemporary comics is individual panels might look nice (if often too busy), but the visual storytelling is awful, if not absent entirely.

The only exception to this I've seen is Terry Moore's work. His recently-concluded Echo is wonderful, and a wonderful reminder that comics should also tell/move their stories through their art.

Well, if what made Watchmen such a great comic has become the norm, I'd definitely like to read one of these more recent masterpieces. I guess it should be easy to make recommendations?

I'd like to see them, too.

Myself, I read Watchmen the first time in 1995 and I've yet to find another comic that is equally good.

Personally, I think Moore's own Marvelman/Miracleman run beats Watchmen (by a hair), but I'm with you that it's a high water mark for comics as a whole. I totally disagree w/the notion Watchmen is somehow dated, or only interesting by virtue of being an early example of a revisionist superhero tale. Dr. Manhattan on Mars is still one of the most beautiful scenes in all of science fiction, and a fine argument --as if this still needs to be argued-- for the use of SF/F modes in "serious" literature.

 

[megamania]

The perception of being dated isn't so much the product but how our society looks at things.

Watchmen
First comic to be cinimatic in style. One of the first to truely be a mature comicbook, not for violence and T & A but for the higher concepts of morality, psychology and definition of good / evil. Because of this book, colleges began to treat comics as an art form and taught literature classes using it.
In college I took a course that compared philosophy, literature and art. For modern times I used the Watchmen series to speak about all THREE subjects. Each of the teachers were surprised by the subject material and maturity of the series. It was something of a wakeup call to them.

Dark Knight Returns
The art is awesome.
Subject material.... new and somewhat original but its the art that makes it an instant classic. Especially with Miller's wife coloring skills. Before the age of computer work it was first rate and ahead of its time.
Personally Miller's Daredevil story "Born Again" I thought was much better.


At the time these stories were huge because they were so different. They are still well written, drawn and well scripted. But what made them stand out is the subject matter and how it was treated. Today the subject matter is over used and commonplace. Some is still well done but most just doesn't cut it, poor imitations of the originals.

Through this "homage" or imitation we have grown used to it and the subject matter. So now we look at the material and compare it to new and "modern" stuff. We want new... not old.

 

[Welverin]

Well, if what made Watchmen such a great comic has become the norm, I'd definitely like to read one of these more recent masterpieces. I guess it should be easy to make recommendations?

Mind you I don't think Watchmen is bad, I just don't have the love for it many others do and in my experience they all read it much closer to it's original release as opposed to my reading it fifteen to twenty years after the fact. Thus my supposition as to why.

I don't think there is a modern equivalent to Watchemen, at least not when it comes to superheroes.

If you just want a good superhero story that hasn't been mentioned yet try [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Halcyon-1-TP-Marc-Guggenheim/dp/1607064103/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313660273&sr=1-1"]Halcyon[/ame] by Marc Guggenheim.