Batman: The Killing Joke -- crap

[Jhaelen]

If you just want a good superhero story that hasn't been mentioned yet try Halcyon by Marc Guggenheim.

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll see if I can get a sneak peek at it.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

What do you consider to be "today's great stuff"? I could use a few comic recommendations (and I'm curious... I can't think of any recent titles that beat Watchman or TDK... of course, that may simply mean I read those two at precisely the right time).

The most recent comic books series that I thought was fantastic? It's been years and I very much loved the Sandman series and the first Death graphic novel called "The High Cost of Living".

I honestly can't think of a comic books series that has come close since.

I never read the Killing Joke. I still think Watchmen is a great read after all these years. I love the Dark Knight Returns for its raw energy, but the art doesn't win me over. I can't stand the Dark Knight Returns II. It's pure crap.

I will give props to the Powers series, especially the earlier issues. The newer issues are also good, but I'm not big on the changes the characters have made.

 

[Welverin]

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll see if I can get a sneak peek at it.

I won't say any more about it than what's in the Amazon blurb.

I will give props to the Powers series, especially the earlier issues. The newer issues are also good, but I'm not big on the changes the characters have made.

Powers has lost me a bit as well, but I think it has more to do with the inconsistent schedule than the drift in direction. Bendis has said they know what the end of it is, so they aren't completely aimless.

Since you like Powers, I'd suggest you give some of Bendis' other creator owned books a try as well, if you haven't already.

AKA Goldfish
Jinx
Torso
Scarlett (this one is ongoing and alternating months with Powers and also suffering from inconsistent release)

For anyone interested in non superhero books look into Y the Last Man, Echo (mentioned by above by someone else), and The Unwritten (while over two years old is not complete like the other two).

 

[nightwind1]

Good point, though you probably meant Batgirl rather than Bat Woman (Batwoman?).

Those were two completely separate characters.


-G

Yah, in his actual review, he calls himself a "comic geek", but if he doesn't know the difference between Batgirl and Batwoman, I wouldn't trust his knowledge or opinion on much else.

But, then again, I've been collecting comics for approximately 38 years.

 

[Plane Sailing]

If you don't mind trying something from the UK, try to get hold the The Ballad of Halo Jones. An amazing collaboration by Moore and Gibson, books 1, 2 and 3 were completed, but because of disputes further elements of the story were not

If you can, get hold of a UK printing in black and white. I understand that for US prints the images were distorted to fit US comic book sizes, and they were colourised (which rarely works well IMO. Art drawn for black and white looks best in black and white).

[ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Ballad-Halo-Jones-Presents/dp/1840233427]The Complete Ballad of Halo Jones 2000 AD Presents: Amazon.co.uk: Alan Moore, Ian Gibson: Books[/ame]

One other thing - I don't recommend reading about it on wikipedia, as they have quite a few important spoilers early on. Buy it and read it straight.

Cheers

 

[Relique du Madde]

I think part of the reason for the decline in the writing of comics may be a result of sloppiness or laziness. Think about all the recent comic events you read. How many of those follow a similar flow chart towards the conclusion, with the only difference being the order that an event happens? Think about how many of them were essentially solved by deus ex machina?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Actually, I believe our entire media culture is in decline except maybe in television. Some of the 1980s television shows are classics because of their cheesiness, but I believe that television fiction handles drama better in science fiction and fantasy.

Of course so-called reality television is a waste.

I think our movies rely on CGI and explosions more than in past movies when such technology was limited. I would cringe if someone tried to do a Bladerunner or Mad Max today.

The same can be said of video games. Games like Ultima 4, Fallout 1, Planescape, Baldur's Gate, and so on keep hitting the best ever charts. Games are now dumbed down and shortened and made more expensive at the same time. Even action games have scene similar declines. There was more to do, a larger area to explore, and more vehicles to play with in Grand Theft Auto 3: San Andreas, than there was in GTA 4.

Our fantasy fiction is weaker than the talent that created the genre during the pulp era.

Cable news is a shadow of its former self. Same for the newspaper industry.

Our musical talents seem to just remix awesome songs from the 70s to 90s.

And the comics of today are also weaker than what I remember from late 80s to late 90s. So it's not just a decline in comics, but a decline in our civilization in general.

 

[Starman]

Actually, I believe our entire media culture is in decline except maybe in television. Some of the 1980s television shows are classics because of their cheesiness, but I believe that television fiction handles drama better in science fiction and fantasy.

Of course so-called reality television is a waste.

I think our movies rely on CGI and explosions more than in past movies when such technology was limited. I would cringe if someone tried to do a Bladerunner or Mad Max today.

The same can be said of video games. Games like Ultima 4, Fallout 1, Planescape, Baldur's Gate, and so on keep hitting the best ever charts. Games are now dumbed down and shortened and made more expensive at the same time. Even action games have scene similar declines. There was more to do, a larger area to explore, and more vehicles to play with in Grand Theft Auto 3: San Andreas, than there was in GTA 4.

Our fantasy fiction is weaker than the talent that created the genre during the pulp era.

Cable news is a shadow of its former self. Same for the newspaper industry.

Our musical talents seem to just remix awesome songs from the 70s to 90s.

And the comics of today are also weaker than what I remember from late 80s to late 90s. So it's not just a decline in comics, but a decline in our civilization in general.

Which sounds like what every generation EVER says. "Everything used to be so much better."

Look, I've been known to have similar thoughts along similar lines, but the fact is that everything goes in cycles and we humans seem to have some sort of hard-wired tendency to view the past through rose-colored glasses. I think part of this is due to the fact that we only really remember the good stuff and quickly forget about the bad. Take something like film. Most movie aficionados regard the 70s as one of the greatest periods of film. And it was! But there was also a lot of drivel that came out, too. But you along with most other people don't remember it. Why should we? It wasn't worth remembering. But we remember the great stuff. We remember the recent bad stuff, though, because it's so recent. In twenty years will you remember the drek? I would say not.

You can do the same thing with comics, books, music, or whatever sort of art form you like. Like I said, it seems to be a natural tendency amongst our species, but one I think that we should work to overcome. Thinking this way does not do us any good.

 

[Dragonwriter]

I think our movies rely on CGI and explosions more than in past movies when such technology was limited. I would cringe if someone tried to do a Bladerunner or Mad Max today.

It depends on the movies you watch... Some action films are all about the CGI (Transformers) and handle it well, giving us a fun time. Others are more grounded for their action. And the dramatic movies don't really fall into this trap... Sure, we see lots of remakes, but we also see some well-made original movies coming out.

The same can be said of video games. Games like Ultima 4, Fallout 1, Planescape, Baldur's Gate, and so on keep hitting the best ever charts.

And new games are in the rankings right there with them. KOTOR 1, Mass Effect, Halo: Reach, Red Dead Redemption, Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3... They're all considered excellent video games, standing proud among the best in the business.

Games are now dumbed down and shortened and made more expensive at the same time. Even action games have scene similar declines.

It depends on what genre of game you look at... Just about anything by BioWare (though I'm not sure about Dragon Age 2) will take upwards of 30 hours, IME. Batman: Arkham Asylum is a wonderfully-solid game and provides a fun experience and good story for a good 10 hours, as I recall (and Arkham City will have roughly 30-40 of content in it). Red Dead Redemption was a massive open world, filled with stuff to do, as are the Elder Scrolls games and Fallout 3. People have logged literally hundreds of hours into those.

There was more to do, a larger area to explore, and more vehicles to play with in Grand Theft Auto 3: San Andreas, than there was in GTA 4.

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I don't play GTA and am working from memories of reviews), but didn't GTA 4 also deliver tighter gameplay and a more-meaningful story? I'd say there's improvements in there...

Our fantasy fiction is weaker than the talent that created the genre during the pulp era.

While I don't dispute the skill and importance of the founders, dismissing every modern writer as "weaker" sounds a lot like Ebert's opinion on video games. There's a lot of good fantasy stuff getting published and it's quite enjoyable. Is it up to your standards? Apparently not, judging by your post. In which case, go ahead and stick to your favorites. Everyone deserves to enjoy themselves. But don't dismiss everything else, just because you favor a different flavor.

Our musical talents seem to just remix awesome songs from the 70s to 90s.

Again, depends on your point of exposure. There are a number of artists I quite enjoy who put together good music, all on their own. Are they big here in the States? Not so much... but you can find them nonetheless (Amazon!). And plenty of them have quite a following overseas. And there are the excellent bands from the 70s and on still persisting and even thriving in today's market. It all depends on personal taste.
(Note: Most, if not all, of my modern music is in the metal genres. Take that as you will. But I will also love my classic rock to the end of my days.)

So it's not just a decline in comics, but a decline in our civilization in general.

While I do agree with this final point, I do so based on different criteria.
I feel our storytelling shifts, changes and, as Starman said, follows something of a cycle. Society, IMO, is reaching one of the lower points of the cycle. But that doesn't necessarily mean most/all stuff from the recent era is garbage compared to older material.


ON TOPIC:
I can't really say that I've been disappointed by any comic runs, as I really don't follow much in the way of comics. I've picked up Watchmen and a couple of the Hellboy collections, but that's all. And I found both to be excellent, in their own ways and for different reasons.

In other media, I've been disappointed. I found the recent Thor movie to be a bit of a let-down, compared to the other superhero movies this year (especially Captain America). It was still good and I'm glad I saw it when I did, but I just felt it didn't measure up to the quality of the others.
And I didn't care for Red Dead Redemption when I got it for 360. Too much riding around on the horse, too bleak of a story, and not enough characters I found to be decent people. It's hard to like a game when you only like a tiny handful of minor supporting characters. The reviews I read and the people I talked to talked about how engaging it was, how well the game area was crafted, the interesting cast, etc. And I just didn't feel it. So I traded it in and got a different game I would prefer to have.
And I muddled my way through The Elric Saga: Part 1, then just dropped Part 2 as I was bored to tears and couldn't stand what I saw as cheesy brooding on the part of the "engaging" main character.