D&D 5E Battlemaster and Superiority Dice are causing martials to suffer.

[ECMO3]

Not really no. I want a Goading attack features that trades the extra damage dice for repeatability.

Why the heck not? He's the FIGHTER, he should be the best at FIGHTING because that's all it seems to get. I'm really annoy at this weird attitude I see all the time that 'If the Fighter can do X, every Tom, Dick, and Harry who swings a sword should be able to do it too" as if the Fighter is some sort of default non-class you apply to anybody. No. The Fighter is a specialist in his own right and if it gets something unique then so be it. The Bard and Cleric get Spells, the Barbarian gets Rage and other abilities. The Fighter can Goad. Or Menace, or Distract or Push 5 feet (you could do it at-will in 4e and it didn't break anything!) on a hit.

He is the best at fighting already without those buffs. He just is not as far ahead.

With a fighter and a 20 strength you will be doing 2xweapon damage +10 at 6th level. Someone using a blade cantrip is doing 1xweapon+1d8+4. So they are a little bit behind - about 6 points or so depending on the weapon with the ability to occasionally manage the same by getting rider damage from the cantrip. The Cleric needs to invest in something to get there, either a Race, subclass or feat and he is still behind, just not far behind the BASE fighter. Give the fighter another 1d6 per turn for no reason, along with an effect like goading and then action surge and whatever he gets from his subclass on top of that and he is way, way ahead.

Just limit the goading or whatever to once per turn if you think it would break the game.

But it is even better and more fun for the table to limit it to once per short rest .... if you chose that fighting style and never get to use it at all if you don't. That keeps the fighter from overshadowing other characters in combat.

 

[Giant Octopodes]

This is what I was getting at in another thread when I said I don't want to see 4e style martial powers in 5e. I want fighters to be able to use a wide variety of maneuvers at will. No resource management needed.

Of course some posters here on ENWORLD think that somehow means limiting fighters to things a guy at the gym can do.

At least 'things a guy at the gym can do' would be a step up from things as they currently stand. Realistically how often have you seen in D&D a battle between two fighters / barbarians / whatever, which starts in the first few rounds with the combatants trying to do Something to gain an advantage - throwing dirt in the other person's eyes, going for the knee, disarming the opponent, you name it, only to realize they're losing ground on the HP battle with the guy just chucking out attack after attack. Then the last 13 rounds devolve into two people standing next to each other attacking over and over until one of them falls.

 

[Undrave]

But it is even better and more fun for the table to limit it to once per short rest .... if you chose that fighting style and never get to use it at all if you don't. That keeps the fighter from overshadowing other characters in combat.

I disagree. Once per short rest is a pitiful ammount of time for such a minuscule advantage. It's less than a Cantrip.

 

[Undrave]

Give the fighter another 1d6 per turn for no reason,

Who said I'm giving an another 1d6 for no reason? I clearly stated: trade the extra damage for the ability to do it at will.

 

[Staffan]

This is what I was getting at in another thread when I said I don't want to see 4e style martial powers in 5e. I want fighters to be able to use a wide variety of maneuvers at will. No resource management needed.

Of course some posters here on ENWORLD think that somehow means limiting fighters to things a guy at the gym can do.

I'd like to see fighters have a mix of at-will abilities and limited-use abilities. I'd rather have limited-use abilities that are reliable and powerful than at-will abilities that require particular rolls or circumstances and/or don't have much impact.

That is, if given the choice between

1. Once per round, push an opponent 5 ft in any direction.
2. Once per combat (or maybe once per day), slam an opponent so hard they go flying 30 ft away and deal some amount of damage to everyone they hit on the way.

I'll take option 2 every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[Staffan]

He is the best at fighting already without those buffs. He just is not as far ahead.

With a fighter and a 20 strength you will be doing 2xweapon damage +10 at 6th level. Someone using a blade cantrip is doing 1xweapon+1d8+4. So they are a little bit behind - about 6 points or so depending on the weapon with the ability to occasionally manage the same by getting rider damage from the cantrip. The Cleric needs to invest in something to get there, either a Race, subclass or feat and he is still behind, just not far behind the BASE fighter. Give the fighter another 1d6 per turn for no reason, along with an effect like goading and then action surge and whatever he gets from his subclass on top of that and he is way, way ahead.

The fighter should be way, way ahead of the cleric when it comes to combat damage. The cleric has things like hold person, spiritual guardians, calm emotions, and revivify, and that's just up to 3rd level spells. The cleric shouldn't do anywhere near the damage with cantrips or regular attacks as the fighter is doing, because that's all the fighter is doing.

 

[Minigiant]

Of course some posters here on ENWORLD think that somehow means limiting fighters to things a guy at the gym can do

"Guy at the gym" would be ok if fighter had exclusive access to most martial weapons, magic weapons, and magic armor like in 0e, 1e, and 2e. If Joe Schmoe the Fighter has exclusive access to Mjolnir, Excalibur, Gunfire, Thunderbolt, Fragarach, Muramasa, the Power Sword, the Power Bands, Stormbringer, Nemean Lionskin, Aegis, Ice, or Anduril, that's a nice constellation prize

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Give the fighter another 1d6 per turn for no reason,

Could you kindly point out who has suggested this please?

But it is even better and more fun for the table to limit it to once per short rest .... if you chose that fighting style and never get to use it at all if you don't. That keeps the fighter from overshadowing other characters in combat.

You truly believe that imposing disadvantage to hit other party members on one or two creatures is going to "overshadow" the other characters? More than say, a Fireball or Hypnotic pattern would?

 

[James Gasik]

Could you kindly point out who has suggested this please?

You truly believe that imposing disadvantage to hit other party members on one or two creatures is going to "overshadow" the other characters? More than say, a Fireball or Hypnotic pattern would?

Well sure, you only get so many spell slots per day! If Fighters could do things spellcasters could do at will, they would be "magical anime Fighters" and the game would implode! : )

 

[ECMO3]

I disagree. Once per short rest is a pitiful ammount of time for such a minuscule advantage. It's less than a Cantrip.

No it is much more than a Cantrip.

Again using it at 6th level you are going to do weapon damage+1d6+strength/dexterity+an effect and it is half an attack action. You can make an entire other attack after you use it. As a matter of fact you can even use this on a bonus action with two weapon fighting.

The best cantrip will do less than that one attack and will use an entire action to do it. Even if you can Green Flame Blade 2 close enemies or if you are a death cleric and can toll the dead on 2 enemies you are still well behind what that fighter would do with his action.

The problem is the fighter has the advantage before we even consider the goading attack.'

How about this as a comprimise - let him use goading attack once perturn starting at 5th level but take away the first extra attack? So he can can make 1 attack at 5th, 2 at 11th, 3 at 20th but he can use goading attack once per turn. That would make it a bit more balanced.