Battlerager....Overpowered?

[Saeviomagy]

I don't get ya, how does the 3 off each hit work with a ranged attack?

Because you still have your temp hitpoints when the ranged attack hits.

It's the attack after the ranged attack that doesn't suffer.

 

[jayphonic]

Yeah, I had three archers with pack attack shooting at me. They were doing solid damage, but 3 off each hit just adds up so quickly.

Battlerager Vigor doesn't allow for that. Maybe he has a magic item, he hasn't told people about? Ranged and Area attacks don't give the THP.

 

[Finley DaDum]

I would like to add one point to this thread.
If you are using an alternative stat generating method that would give you higher stats than the standard point buy, then the value of Battlerager Vigor seems to go up. I personally tend to play in campaigns that offer either higher point buy or very favorable rolls. Under these conditions it seems that Battlerager Vigor is the clear choice over the weapon talent options.

 

[Stalker0]

Battlerager Vigor doesn't allow for that. Maybe he has a magic item, he hasn't told people about? Ranged and Area attacks don't give the THP.

I actually forgot this part, so that would have made a difference. The majority of my damage came from melee, but this definitely would have factored in.

And that's probably the other reason I don't like battlerager, its too hard to track. I have to change temp hp all teh time, it only works against certain attacks, etc. Much easier just to slap on the +1 to attacks and be done with it.

 

[eamon]

I actually forgot this part, so that would have made a difference. The majority of my damage came from melee, but this definitely would have factored in.

And that's probably the other reason I don't like battlerager, its too hard to track. I have to change temp hp all teh time, it only works against certain attacks, etc. Much easier just to slap on the +1 to attacks and be done with it.

That's valid, but it's definitely not balance issue. And of course, you're bound to get used to it if you do it for a while. In general, you'll often have either your "full" temp hp or no temp hp, but still, it's a lot of bookkeeping. Perhaps you could use tokens of some kind?

 

[Mengu]

That's valid, but it's definitely not balance issue. And of course, you're bound to get used to it if you do it for a while. In general, you'll often have either your "full" temp hp or no temp hp, but still, it's a lot of bookkeeping. Perhaps you could use tokens of some kind?

I really didn't have any trouble keeping track. The difference between a melee/close attack and a ranged attack is usually pretty clear. The THP buffer really gets crazy when you have allies who like to give you THP when you don't have any (such as a Paladin or Warlord) so even that first attack against you hits some sort of a buffer. Add some invigorating THP's and a high AC, and the fighter just does not go down except against serious challenges and even then, with a leader in the party, the fighter can stand for a very long lime. Invigorating powers just add insult to injury.

Suffice it to say I've made the decission to not allow any battlerager builds in my game, after test playing one.

 

[Bagpuss]

Suffice it to say I've made the decission to not allow any battlerager builds in my game, after test playing one.

You aren't even considering a fix, like the temp hit points once a round?

Although I am starting to think the whole concept is just wrong. I remember in the build up to 4th Edition, one of the things they mentioned was removing Damage Reduction, because of what it did to the maths and the trouble of balancing things, this Class Feature just seems to bring it back, with the problems they mentioned.

Even if you made it once a round, what happens when you meet a solo monster or working with the other defender in the party he makes sure he's only suffering attacks from one opponent most of the time?

 

[Mengu]

You aren't even considering a fix, like the temp hit points once a round?

There are enough other options that I don't feel taking out the battlerager build will be missed, especially once PHB2 is out with the Barbarian which essentially fills a similar role in what I think is a more balanced fashion. However I do hope they fixed some of the "auto-pick" issues with the Barbarian since the playtest version.

Edit: Besides, houserules that are on or off are a lot easier to enforce than rule changes.

 

[Obryn]

I really, really want to see one of these in action, myself, before I pass judgment... Basically, as I see it now...

(1) Against spellcasters, ranged folks, and so on, the Battlerager will be weaker than a regular fighter. Likely, their AC and Reflex will be lower, which will also allow more conditions to affect them.

(2) Against regular melee opponents, I expect the Battlerager's usefulness will be inversely proportional to the enemy's average damage. Generally, the lower the opponent's damage output, the more a combat will favor the Rager. The higher the opponent's damage output, the more a combat will favor a Shield fighter. (In other words, if you're fighting an Ogre I'd expect it's better to take 0 damage 15% more often, than it is to take 6 less damage 15% more often.)

(3) Unsupported minions, no matter how many there are, will never kill or significantly hamper a Battlerager except with missile fire or special effects. Their fixed damage will be lower than the Rager's temporary HPs every single attack. And, in a mixed combat, the more minions there are, the better off the Rager will be. (This is another one of 4e's special cases where minions are far, far less valuable than 1/4 of a regular creature.)

-O

 

[NaturalZero]

I think its a mistake to assume that the Battlerager isnt going to be wearing scale and using a heavy shield, just like other fighters. Looking at my own game, im just trying to balance a +1 to hit versus temp hp every round in many fights. The scalemail + shield battlerager is just as hard to hit as any other Con-based fighter build.