Battlerager Vigor limiting it - ideas?

[Garthanos]

It just occurred to me that one of the biggest problems I'm seeing with the battlerager in this discussion is the linking of the ability to Constitution.

I was starting to think that too I was also thinking that the dwarven stone blood feature needed to be paragon.

Your tie it to armor is weird but interesting...

 

[Elric]

For some reason my brain just appended the concept to your idea sorry for the miss-attribution your idea apparently made me think of the simpler method ie using damage resistance.

That's fine. I was thinking of suggesting an option with BRV granting resistance. I try to suggest house rules that are small changes wherever possible. However, BRV is incredibly complicated, so the usual argument that small change house rules are better because they keep things simple doesn't have much force.

The consistancy of not worrying if the damage is ranged or not is good to my thinking as well... and a perk for the DM and character alike.

The proposal you quote only gives the BRV Resistance against melee/close attacks. I remove the restriction of needing temp HP to get the BRV's bonus damage, though (which means that you don't have to worry as much about ranged attackers). If you want BRV to give resistance to all attacks (this includes ongoing damage, which becomes more and more common at higher levels), you probably want to tone down the maximum amount of Resistance you can get.

For example, you could do this by taking my previous proposal and reducing the Resistance added by the feats.

Battlerager Vigor: You gain Resistance (1+ Con mod) / 2, minimum 1.

When wearing no armor, light armor, or chainmail, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with melee and close weapon attacks. This bonus increases to +2 if you’re wielding an axe, a hammer, a mace, or a pick.

Feats:
Improved Vigor: Change the sentence on Battlerager Vigor to “If you have the Battlerager Vigor class feature and are 11th level or higher, increase the Resistance it grants by 1 (2 at 21st level or higher)

Dwarven Stoneblood: Change to a Paragon feat: “Add one half your Constitution modifier to the Resistance granted by your Battlerager Vigor. This does not stack with the Improved Vigor feat.” Note that doing the calculation out shows that a character with Dwarven Stoneblood gets Resistance from Battlerager Vigor equal to his Constitution modifier.

Compared to the previous proposal, this one is even easier to run because the Resistance applies to all attacks. I reduced the Resistance that Improved Vigor grants by 1 per tier and made it not stack with Dwarven Stoneblood.

 

[Garthanos]

That's fine. I was thinking of suggesting an option with BRV granting resistance. I try to suggest house rules that are small changes wherever possible. However, BRV is incredibly complicated, so the usual argument that small change house rules are better because they keep things simple doesn't have much force.

I agree I am rather loyal to the raw, so prefer making changes subtle and maintaining connection to the original rules... I also like offering alternatives and temptations.

Note as Damage Resistance it would reduce damage (before you take temporary hit point loss) so it is more powerful in that fashion in effect it combines with thp from invigorating, combine that with being agnostic about range of damage source and we have something to explain to somebody who likes BRV and feels it is being gimped too much

Perhaps it is more "I am immune to pain you know scars come in handy for something... been doing this so long my muscles dont recognize fatigue much either, the captain says I dont look out for my hide well enough anymore but I do hit hard."

Easier to visualize it as a grizzled soldier effect different than BRV eh ;-)
though brv could be skinned that way too I am sure...

 

[Kzach]

Your tie it to armor is weird but interesting...

Weird?

The less armour you wear, the more of a thrill battle is for you 'cause you're copping hits more often.

It's really the same , different smell.

 

[Garthanos]

Weird?

The less armour you wear, the more of a thrill battle is for you 'cause you're copping hits more often.

It's really the same , different smell.

Completely disconnected with level mechanincally weird or did I miss something.. And ... flavor almost invokes, Ancient sky clad Celts and War Witches, running on adrenaline rage weird.

Nothing wrong with weird.. smelly is usually bad though.

 

[keterys]

If an enemy damages you with a melee or close attack, you may gain <the normal amount> of temporary hp
(as an immediate reaction)
(at the start of your next turn)
(at the end of your next turn)

If you want to change it to 1/round, pick one of the above - deals with immunity to many minions, though one is still screwed (but, really, that's okay).

 

[Kzach]

Completely disconnected with level mechanincally weird or did I miss something.. And ... flavor almost invokes, Ancient sky clad Celts and War Witches, running on adrenaline rage weird.

Not at all. By having magical plusses boost it, it's tied indirectly to level and masterwork armours are also level-based.

 

[FireLance]

How about just this 1 idea.... for BRV only real hitpoint damage induces thp.
Maximum temporary hitpoints gained equals the real hitpoint loss of the last attack or the characters con mod whichever is lower (improved vigor bonus only occurs if you get thp and may increase it above that limit.)

I really like this idea, but with one additional twist: you get temporary hit points equal to half the real hit point loss, to a maximum of Constitution modifier plus all the other adjustments from feats, etc. This way, you lose a little something with every hit even if you are always attacked by minions.

 

[Garthanos]

I really like this idea, but with one additional twist: you get temporary hit points equal to half the real hit point loss, to a maximum of Constitution modifier plus all the other adjustments from feats, etc. This way, you lose a little something with every hit even if you are always attacked by minions.

calculating half real hit point loss all the time might kill Kzach and I think I see a couple others around the room falling over twitching heheheh.... not sure the gain is work the havoc. ;-)

1 issue we are running in to is that brv really is a better option than what one gives up in order to take it. A factor there doesnt seem a good way to fix except increasing what one gives up.

Note Kzach by tying it to the invert of your armor is saying you have to give up the high end armor if you want the benefit you cant be feeling all cozy in a shell, you have to have the risk ...with blood pumping and all.

The oddity of your magic armor feeding in to it... is kind of jarring though. Perhaps it is like the warriors who over time learns to make their weapons a part of them.

 

[Garthanos]

That's fine. I was thinking of suggesting an option with BRV granting resistance.

I figured it out.. Eric Finley,said he changed it to a resistance but my brain said if you change it to resistance you would have to gimp it some way and that had mixed nicely with you saying using (1 + CON mod)/2 minimum 1. (and um Elric vs Eric)