Bear Warrior is NERFED

[Anditch]

The Bear Warrior is on p16 of the Complete Warriors Handbook. My human Barbarian at 7th level whilst in a rage does 1D12 + 10. (22 strength +1 greataxe, 1 handed wep held in two hands giving a +3 bonus). I get 2 attacks.so thats a possible max of 44
Now add a level on which in theory you should be getting better.
1st level of Bear Warrior. You gain +8 str +2 dex +4 con +2natural armour but you loose -2 AC. but this is the bummer part a black bears attacks are claw,claw,bite. 1D4+8, 1d4+8,1d6+4.Half strength modifier as its a second primary attack. total of 34 at max.

Has anyone else played a BW and found this to be the same NERFED or are we doing something wrong.

 

[kjenks]

Sadly, you're doing it right. Bear Warrior is pathetic compared with a properly armed and armored fighter/barbarian of equivalent level.

There are several strange rule situations about Bear Warrior, too, like the strangeness about how many times per day you can "go grizzly," and the lack of clarity on the type of action needed for turning into a bear, etc.

 

[Taren Seeker]

Bear Warrior rocks if you are a grappler.

As for type of action, it's free like rage. number of times per day, we ignore the usage limit and just have it work as many times as you rage. I think that the extra text is just an editing error.

 

[Felix]

Average damage is better than max/min damage for seeing what the long-range effectiveness is...

1d12+10 (avg 16.5)
1d4+8 (avg 10.5)
1d6+4 (avg 7.5)

So your first attack and your two claw attacks are going to have the same to-hit probability, so we'll just go ahead and fix it at 75%.
Barbarian: 16.5 * .75 = 12.375
Bear's two claw attacks: 10.5 * .75 + 10.5 * .75 = 15.75

And the second iterative attack will have the same miss chance as the bite, so that'll be discounted. Fix it at 50%.
Barbarian: 16.5 * .5 = 8.25
Bear bite attack: 7.5 * .5 = 3.75

So the total expected damage for full attacks is...
Barbarian: 12.375 + 8.25 = 20.625
Bear: 15.75 + 3.75 = 19.5

So yeah, you're right that the bear will do less damage, but it's not as bad as your 44 to 34 comparison.

And what are the advantages?

• These things can neither be destroyed nor disarmed.

• You will kick ass in a grapple, when otherwise you'd be doing 1d3+STR subdual damage with your hands if you remained a human.

• You're a bear. That's cool.

In a lot of ways this is a flavor class. Frankly I'm glad not every PrC provides better mechanical damage, or we'd just end up having that horrible power creep of 2e. Don't take the class if you just want better damage... straight barbarian or barbarian with 4 fighter levels will do that better. Take the class if you want to be able to turn into a friggin bear.

And remember that PrCs were in the DMG to begin with. And there are plenty of under-powered PrCs that exist not for PCs, but rather so the DM can have specialized characters to fill out a portion of his world.



EDIT:
I just took a look at the PrC, and the weapon damage is different from what was originally posted. The black bear claw attacks deal 1d4 + 1/2 STR, and the bite attack deals 1d6 + STR. That will skew the average damage more in favor of the barbarian while in Black bear form. Brown bear and Dire bear forms will change that in favor of the bear, however.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

The brown bear form is a significant power boost over the black bear form. An additional +8 Str, claw attacks go up to 1d8, and you get Improved Grab with an additional +4 on Grapple checks due to Large size.

 

[Andor]

Plus depending on how generous you GM is you can use it to qualify for the Shapechanger prestige class from Orirntal adventures. That's where my Barbarian was headed. Barb 7/Bear warrior 1/ Shapechanger 1/ Finish out bear warrior...

Sadly that campaign ended. Pity, I loved that character.

 

[Lodow MoBo]

The Primal in the Frostburn would be an appropriate replacement. It is what you want in the bear warrior. I wish I could play one.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

(22 strength +1 greataxe, 1 handed wep held in two hands giving a +3 bonus).

A greataxe isn't a one-handed weapon. It doesn't change your calculation, but I'm really not sure why you bothered to write "1 handed wep held in two hands" in the first place.

 

[Greylock]

• You're a bear. That's cool.

That right there's the advantage of the Bear Warrior PrC as I see it. Too bad my fellow campaigner decided against taking the PrC. I was kinda looking forward to joining Smokie in battle.

 

[monboesen]

Well. I have a bear warrior in my campaing and he does absolutely horrendous damage. He is at the Brown bear stage and a whopping +16 str piled on his own 16 str is friggin awesome. True he gets hurt quite a bit himself but with Power attack, Cleave and Great cleave he is just cleaning out enemies faster than they can pile it on him.

Add a few well chosen magical trinkets (like wild armor and amulet of mighty fists) and your hammering away. At 11th level his grabble check is +25, not many medium foes are going to beat that.