Being threatened by products you aren't interested in

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Hey Guy

So got an example of that you would be willing to share with me?
Or an example of where you think that happened, etc?
Speculation is fine between us

TK

In this case I was thinking of the 'abandoned' settings -- Planescape, Dark Sun, etc. There's been enough interest expressed and they seem to have a sufficient fanbase that you'd think some third-party would have filled the void. That they haven't tells me that the hoops they need to jump through with WotC is too great a disincentive. Pure suppoisition on my part, of course.

Then, too, there seems to be something quirky in the relationship with Paizo and WotC regarding future AP books, or the fact that the upcoming 'Ecologies' 'book' will actually be a magazine. I think it all goes back to WotC suspicion of the OGL/SRD bed they made with themselves -- they want it to be successful enough to drive sales of WotC stuff, but not so successful that something becomes popular enough to supplant their offerings. It's hardly limited to this genre, though. There were similar whisperings regarding the Fallout CRPG franchise, for example.

It's just an unfortunate side-effect of the intersection of art and business. I totally understand that there is a reluctance to open up IP even if you don't plan on taking advantage of it yourself, as the desire for control is hard to resist. Still, as a consumer, I can be annoyed when that prevents future products that I might enjoy.

 

[Einan]

There's a concept that anthropologists talk about called the theory of the limited good. It states, loosely quoted from memory after 7 years out of college, that there is only a limited amount of good things in the world. If you get something good, then someone else must lose something good. So we're all better off if we just get enough to be average. No one should try to get too much goodness, lest they be seen as stealing it from others. Apparently it's a prevalent belief among farming societies and now, role-players.

"I love Forgotten Realms. If an Eberron book comes out, then that means that book COULD have been a Forgotten Realms book and therefore I lose out on a FR book. Ergo, Eberron is stealing away my precious FR goodness. I hate Eberron!"

Einan

 

[Sir Elton]

There's a concept that anthropologists talk about called the theory of the limited good. It states, loosely quoted from memory after 7 years out of college, that there is only a limited amount of good things in the world. If you get something good, then someone else must lose something good. So we're all better off if we just get enough to be average. No one should try to get too much goodness, lest they be seen as stealing it from others. Apparently it's a prevalent belief among farming societies and now, role-players.

"I love Forgotten Realms. If an Eberron book comes out, then that means that book COULD have been a Forgotten Realms book and therefore I lose out on a FR book. Ergo, Eberron is stealing away my precious FR goodness. I hate Eberron!"

Einan

That is a stupid theory. First of all, there is no such thing as limited resources. Believing in limited resources is called coveting. When you covet, a belief of limited resources is the root. Abundance is the Law of the Universe and the Source of Life.

What I'm saying is that just because you love Forgotten Realms, and Wizards is filling out Eberron books over Forgotten Realms books, does not mean that you are cut out of the loop for ideas.

There is an abundance of material that supports the Forgotten Realms. Most of it 3rd party. Ptolus, the Book of Eldritch Might, the Dungeon Crawl Classics, Fiery Dragon's adventures, Atlas' The Crystal Shard, etc. You just need to use your imagination to fit it in.

You don't need an Forgotten Realms specific book. In fact, some of the Eberron books that came out can be adapted to the Realms. Just because Good comes in a different form doesn't mean you have to reject it.

 

[Edgewood]

As many people may complain or detract a product from their favorite RPG publisher, I do have to say that I have noticed that despite the negative comments you can always find a positive comment to counter it here on EN World. I know that we are part of a niche market and that pleasing everyone is impossible, but its good to know that there are always those folks who will give that product a chance despite the nay sayers. Kudos to them!!!

 

[Shroomy]

In this case I was thinking of the 'abandoned' settings -- Planescape, Dark Sun, etc. There's been enough interest expressed and they seem to have a sufficient fanbase that you'd think some third-party would have filled the void. That they haven't tells me that the hoops they need to jump through with WotC is too great a disincentive. Pure suppoisition on my part, of course.

I'm sure there is interest in these setting, but I think that WoTC does not license these settings because they get more value out of retaining the IP for their own purposes instead of licensing it out to a 3rd party company. Think about how many elements of the officially defunct settings, especially Planescape, have made it into core D&D WoTC products or the officially licensed material in Dragon and Dungeon, all of which they own and approve? I think a 3rd Party would have to have some serious capital to make this worthwhile for WoTC, which is probably why Ravenloft was the only setting truly licensed out.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I'm sure there is interest in these setting, but I think that WoTC does not license these settings because they get more value out of retaining the IP for their own purposes instead of licensing it out to a 3rd party company. Think about how many elements of the officially defunct settings, especially Planescape, have made it into core D&D WoTC products or the officially licensed material in Dragon and Dungeon, all of which they own and approve? I think a 3rd Party would have to have some serious capital to make this worthwhile for WoTC, which is probably why Ravenloft was the only setting truly licensed out.

Those would be some of the aforementioned hoops.

But there becomes a point where sitting on something too long doesn't make it more valuable -- the wine turns to vinegar, as it were. And just because you license out something doesn't preclude you from adapting it to your own purposes, either. I just think sometimes companies forget that a little money now is more useful than the slight possibility of a little more money at some indeterminate point in the future. Companies also overestimate the potential value of their IP all the time, although you also see them go the other way and dilute the value of the property, too.

 

[Umbran]

That is a stupid theory. First of all, there is no such thing as limited resources. Believing in limited resources is called coveting. When you covet, a belief of limited resources is the root. Abundance is the Law of the Universe and the Source of Life.

I am quite sorry, but the laws of physics strongly disagree with you. There's only so much energy available for use, only a limited number of hours in the day. Things only move so fast, people only get so much work done. The systems has a limit on how eficient it can be.

The universe is abundant, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a limit to the resources available. It just means the limit is fairly high, in general. But for any one specifc type of item, you may find the limits rather stringent...

 

[Wormwood]

Is it just me, or is this becoming more common?

It's the Internet.

80% porn, 20% bitching.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

after all, if you take away the weapon from the products you aren't interested in, they can't threaten you.

Some problems you aren't interested in have natural attacks and quite a bit of reach (many Icons dragon enemies face that problem)

 

[Shroomy]

Those would be some of the aforementioned hoops.

But there becomes a point where sitting on something too long doesn't make it more valuable -- the wine turns to vinegar, as it were. And just because you license out something doesn't preclude you from adapting it to your own purposes, either. I just think sometimes companies forget that a little money now is more useful than the slight possibility of a little more money at some indeterminate point in the future. Companies also overestimate the potential value of their IP all the time, although you also see them go the other way and dilute the value of the property, too.

What you say is true, but really, how valuable are those defunct settings when taken as a whole (actually, not as a whole since meta-settings like Spelljammer, Planescape, and Ravenloft would have to be revised so as not to infringe on each other, similar to what happened to Lord Soth's domain when WW licensed Ravenloft)? I doubt they would be very valuable, though bits and pieces could easily be very valuable when integrated into another product line (or the paperback book trade, or miniatures, etc., etc.).