Benefits to the cleric for healing others

[pogre]

Greetings,

I have an idea bouncing around for my next campaign that I would like to discuss.

First, some assumptions from me:

• Healing other PCs is rarely viewed as heroic.
• Buffing other PCs is effective, but not often viewed as heroic.
• There is a built-in assumption that the cleric will heal other members of the party. I know some folks play a battle cleric and refuse to do this but humor me - this is one of my assumptions.
• Clerics and Magic-users must pay experience points to create magic items. All other PCs can only contribute material costs - that's it.

Given these assumptions, I have been considering awarding experience points for healing and buffing other members of the party. Something like 3 xp for every hp healed and maybe 5 xp per level of buff spell.

IMC clerics and magic-users tend to fall a bit behind due to crafting magic items. I think these rules might do two things - help with the experience point drain for creating items, and two, actively promote healing and casting of buffs by giving a little bit back to the caster.

What do you think?

 

[Li Shenron]

It's a strange idea but could be interesting. I would be more in favor of trying it with healing only tho, because otherwise it's too much towards the idea of "getting xp when helping other". If it becomes too generic, a Rogue may want Xp when she risks her life when disabling traps, a Fighter when standing on the front-line, etc...

 

[ceratitis]

i agree with li. btw- in d&d back in the days of the red and blue boxes didnt the cleric get xp for healing? and the rogue for traps exc... the fighter didnt need the bonus cos he leveled faster.
Z

 

[Infiniti2000]

Given these assumptions, I have been considering awarding experience points for healing and buffing other members of the party. Something like 3 xp for every hp healed and maybe 5 xp per level of buff spell.

Given the assumptions, I'd think you wouldn't do something like this. I play a cleric and I would absolutely start burning a lot of spells on mostly useless causes. The fighter's down 1hp? Cure serious, baby! At the end of the day, burn all my remaining, non-domain spells on cures. Free XP!

IMC clerics and magic-users tend to fall a bit behind due to crafting magic items. I think these rules might do two things - help with the experience point drain for creating items, and two, actively promote healing and casting of buffs by giving a little bit back to the caster.

For the first, the item-crafters will catch up. I personally hate the creation rules for this reason. IME, it's a major power swing towards characters that can create items. For the second, that still flies in the face of your assumption. Is your assumption wrong or something? That's why clerics can spontaneously cure, to make it reasonable to heal.

I think you are looking in the wrong place to fix any perceived problems. If you have a problem with the creation rules, look to fix the item creation rules. If you have a problem with the party cleric refusing to heal anyone, fix that problem. One or both of Two methods presents itself: eliminate the spontaneous cures & allow cure spells to wizards and sorcerers.

 

[Staffan]

i agree with li. btw- in d&d back in the days of the red and blue boxes didnt the cleric get xp for healing? and the rogue for traps exc... the fighter didnt need the bonus cos he leveled faster.

That was AD&D 2nd ed, not Basic/Expert.

Warriors
Per HD of creature defeated: 10 XP/level

Priests
Per successful use of granted power: 100 XP
Spell cast to further ethos (e.g. druid casting spell to stop orcs from burning forest): 100 XP/spell level
Making magic item: XP value

Wizard
Spell cast to overcome foe or problem: 50 XP/spell level
Spell successfully researched: 500 XP/spell level
Making magic item: XP value

Rogue
Successful use of rogue ability: 200 XP
Per gp value of treasure obtained: 2 XP
Per HD of creature defeated (bard only): 5 XP/level

These awards were further expanded in some places, at least in Dark Sun (can't recall seeing any expanded versions elsewhere). Dark Sun also had race-based personal XP (e.g. Thri-kreen got XP for bringing kills back for food).

 

[pogre]

I think you are looking in the wrong place to fix any perceived problems. If you have a problem with the creation rules, look to fix the item creation rules. If you have a problem with the party cleric refusing to heal anyone, fix that problem. One or both of Two methods presents itself: eliminate the spontaneous cures & allow cure spells to wizards and sorcerers.

The perceived problem is with the clerics and magic-users falling behind due to item creation. So, I guess I am aiming mostly at the first problem you stated.

Part of the issue is my players are very willing to help out their fellow PCs. They make items for them, forego taking a combat action to heal, and so on. Those have become assumed roles of clerics, especially in our campaigns. I just want to give them a little kickback for taking on this role - a further incentive to play these characters.

You could be right about the problem with item creation in general. However, I have not found an alternate system I like. I also think created items are an assumption of the core rules these days. I used to run a low magic campaign using a lot of rules from Grim Tales. These days if I want low magic I play something else - with D&D campaigns I just go with what I perceive to be the rules assumptions about fairly high magic item usage, etc.

 

[pogre]

Given the assumptions, I'd think you wouldn't do something like this. I play a cleric and I would absolutely start burning a lot of spells on mostly useless causes. The fighter's down 1hp? Cure serious, baby! At the end of the day, burn all my remaining, non-domain spells on cures. Free XP!

I might not have been clear enough - curing the fighter's 1 hp would be worth 3 XP. I'm not too worried about potential abuse. Frankly, burning all of their spells to heal up the party has been a given in my campaigns for some time. I know not all parties and clerics like to work this way, and that's why I stated the assumptions above - it's how we tend to do things.

And, I have accomplished one of my goals even if you do see this as a boost for clerics - you want to play one!

 

[Machiavelli]

Um, the cmpensation for being the free HP soup kitchen for entire parties is that Clerics are combat monsters. Even after buffing a bit and healing a bit, there are enough spells left over for a cleric to buff himself up and take his armored, 1d8/lvl hitpoint-endowed, mace-proficient self into the thick of things to kick some arse almost as well as a fighter. If that's not viable, he can whip out some divinely inspired gouts of flame and electric plasma to toast almost as well as a sorcerer.

So, in my opinion, just put up with being the charitable party member (if you're a Good cleric, it's only fair for you to roleplay like one) because as a cleric you have NOTHING to complain about in any other regard.

 

[Hawken]

Even with the creation of magic items, Wizards and Clerics could still seriously outstrip others if they were granted bonus xp for buffs, etc. During downtime, they could be cranking out hundreds, if not thousands of xp per day for spells cast on others. The xp cost of magic items made would only slightly mitigate this increase and the character in question, over a period of weeks or months in between adventures, could easily rise a level or two above their companions.

As for the 2nd edition xp bonus, keep in mind those bonuses were in place at a time when it took hundreds of thousands of xp to advance 1 level after 9th or 10th (I think 375,000 for Wizards).

Your idea is not bad, but if you're wanting to fix the xp cost of items concentrate on that. Maybe give the spellcasters a pool of "crafting" points that they can spend to create magic items and anything over that amount would then come out of their personal XP. I think the Eberron setting has a system like this in place. Or just eliminate the XP cost and instead give the players a limited amount of time for crafting items. Tell them, "Ok, before we move on, you've got enough time to whip up 10 potions or scrolls and 4 or less items, depending on their power." (the more powerful the item being made, the longer it takes, leaving less time for other items). This could force them to choose between something like the +3 Silent Moves leather armor for the rogue or a girdle of giant strength for the warrior. Whatever.

If you want to encourage healing, maybe do something like allowing the spell to heal 1hp per level of spell on the cleric as well as the healing power passes through him and into the subject. This could result in more hp for the cleric over their maximum with extra hp fading at a rate of 1 per 10 min or so. That, I think, would be sufficient to encourage more active healing. You could do the same for buffing too. If the cleric or wizard casts bull strength, the subject gets the spell normally and the caster gets 1 point to his strength (or whatever ability is increased) as well and for the same time. It provides a positive reason with a temporary bonus that doesn't overpower.

 

[ceratitis]

well he is the dm so i doubt if he'll just give them xp for down time useless buffs, this isnt a stupid computer program we're talking about here.
i have another offer, why dont you simply grant them perks for when they take a personal hit for some other player. say you had a battle where you cleric was running around healing everybody so efficently he had no time to do something interesting himself. later they find a treasure and you throw in a minor item fit for his char only.
later he creates an item for a party member and is granted a divine boon in his next battle or something. you should really do the same for all classes so that they dont feel favoritizm.
Z