Best (but simple) Superhero Game out?

[Madmaxneo]

I'm not sure what you mean by "complete", and in what way the FASERIP lacks to make it "incomplete".

Marvel Super Heroes, otherwise the FASERIP system, lacked a good balanced power/stat improvement system and the skill system was very weak (i.e. it was incomplete). I haven't had the chance to see if whomever did the "expert netbook" update changed any of these things.

Bruce

 

[Madmaxneo]

I was going for the netbook conversion of Marvel Super Heroes, but I discovered that it is a d20 conversion.
I have a question for d20 fans, would it be easy to convert over to a percentile system by simply multiplying everything by 5 or would it need more detailed conversions?
And yes I am a percentile system fan.
Mutants and Masterminds is looking better the more I look into this. It is d20 but at the same time it isn't d20. I like the way the game handles some things as opposed to normal OGL d20 rules.
I haven't been able to find samples or lite versions of the other games mentioned to check them out yet
Bruce

 

[Spatula]

I'm not sure what you mean by "complete", and in what way the FASERIP lacks to make it "incomplete".

I was about to say the same thing. There is so much support for MSH, that I don't think there are any characters that you couldn't do in the system. Heck, the entire Marvel universe circa the 1980s has been officially statted up using the system.

Personally, I find the d20 holdovers in M&M to be a detriment. The separation between stats, secondary stats like attack rolls, skills, and feats/advantages (and then M&M-specific equipment and powers) allows for a lot of customization, but a lot of it is pointless, IMO. I can say, "I want to build a martial artist" (for example) and I see all the different levers that could be moved to achieve similar results at different costs, and it just looks needlessly complicated to me. Do I want the Fighting stat? Close Combat skill? The Close Attack advantage? Some mix? In what proportions? And that just covers my attack bonus - I haven't even gotten to any cool superhero-type stuff yet.

As a result of stuff like that, I've become more a fan of "looser," more narrative systems that don't sweat the small stuff and work more like comic books read. I really like the last Marvel RPG, although it sadly got discontinued when Marvel yanked the license for unknown reasons.

 

[Madmaxneo]

I was about to say the same thing. There is so much support for MSH, that I don't think there are any characters that you couldn't do in the system. Heck, the entire Marvel universe circa the 1980s has been officially statted up using the system.

Personally, I find the d20 holdovers in M&M to be a detriment. The separation between stats, secondary stats like attack rolls, skills, and feats/advantages (and then M&M-specific equipment and powers) allows for a lot of customization, but a lot of it is pointless, IMO. I can say, "I want to build a martial artist" (for example) and I see all the different levers that could be moved to achieve similar results at different costs, and it just looks needlessly complicated to me. Do I want the Fighting stat? Close Combat skill? The Close Attack advantage? Some mix? In what proportions? And that just covers my attack bonus - I haven't even gotten to any cool superhero-type stuff yet.

As a result of stuff like that, I've become more a fan of "looser," more narrative systems that don't sweat the small stuff and work more like comic books read. I really like the last Marvel RPG, although it sadly got discontinued when Marvel yanked the license for unknown reasons.

The more I look at it, I feel the same way. For super hero games a looser more narrative system works best.
Are you talking about the Margaret Weis/Tracy Hickman production of Marvel Super Heroes?
I found that I had a lot more of the physical books of the original Marvel Super Heroes than I thought, including a lot of maps and some counters.
So, I am going to push in that direction.

Bruce

 

[Umbran]

Marvel Super Heroes, otherwise the FASERIP system, lacked a good balanced power/stat improvement system

Well, it was based on the idea that, in the comics, heroes change only very slowly over time. The system reflects that pretty well, honestly.

and the skill system was very weak (i.e. it was incomplete).

Ah. Okay, I think of it as being complete, insofar as, in the genre, specific skills aren't all that important. YMMV, of course.

 

[Madmaxneo]

Ah. Okay, I think of it as being complete, insofar as, in the genre, specific skills aren't all that important. YMMV, of course.

I prefer skill based systems over anything else. Like Rolemaster and HARP. I can see how they aren't that important but I have my quirks.

Bruce

 

[Bagpuss]

I think Hero while complete, fails on complexity.

have you considered FATE Core or perhaps even better Fate Accelerated. There are loads of sample Superheroes on the internet for it, plus it is really easy to do characters. Given a character the aspect "Last son of Krypton" and there you go he has flight, heat vision, super strength, plus vulnerable to kryptonite etc..

 

[Umbran]

I prefer skill based systems over anything else.

And it is fine to like skill based systems. I just note that then it isn't a question of being complete, but of being skill based.

 

[Umbran]

Given a character the aspect "Last son of Krypton" and there you go he has flight, heat vision, super strength, plus vulnerable to kryptonite etc..

That's... a lot to get from a single aspect. And, in general, in order to get value out of an aspect you need to spend a fate point. And, invoking it gives you just a +2 on your roll. That's not likely to get a character to consistently be able to lift ocean liners, unless you've just re-scaled the entire system. And then, *everyone* is lifting ocean liners, because getting a +2 on a roll isn't all that hard.

 

[am181d]

I run MSH/FASERIP with a few hacks:

1) I replaced Karma and advancement with hero points. You get 1 hero point at the start of each adventure and get more for completing encounters, doing cool stuff, etc Hero points can be spent for a bunch of stuff including negating an attack, boosting damage, getting an extra action, etc. or can be banked to raise stats 1-for-1.

2) I made the skill system a little bit more free-form (so someone might have the Farmer skill and somebody else might have the Football skill) and broke it into ranks that run from +1 to +3 (novice to master)

3) Lastly and most importantly, I rely heavily on the character modeling option in the advanced book. I work with players to decide what their powers should be, what the starting ranks should be, etc. so that everything matches their character concept and is relatively balanced. Powers are fine-tuned to match whatever the player wants rather than needing to work exactly like the version in the book.

All of these options emphasis FASERIP's fast and loose play and push it further into the direction of storytelling game, but my players generally appreciate it!