Best Spell to Maximize

[Larcen]

... I can't think of a single one that is worth sacrificing a higher-level spell for. ...
-Tiberius

As has already been explained, Extend is great...which is often followed up by the mighty Persistent feat.

I still get chills when I think of a 15th level cleric with a Persistent Divine Power. He would have all the powers of a cleric, while using a fighter's BAB all day long. Oh, and the 18 str and 15 bonus HPs aren't bad either.

 

[S'mon]

x2 Empower?

Where does it say that you can use Empower more than once on the same casting? I can't find anything about this in my PHB. Does it require you to take the Empower feat more than once? Are you all just making this up? Did the Sage make it up? Is it in the WoTC Errata? Who shot JFK?

 

[Jeremy]

Check the official D&D frequently asked questions document on the website for the answer to this frequently asked question.

No, you do not need to take the feat multiple times.

Yes, you can apply multiple metamagic feats to a single spell or multiple instances of the same metamagic feat to a single spell so long as you are capable of casting the spell in the higher spell slot.

Yes, there are lots of stipulations, exceptions, and specific rules that apply to this that are covered in the FAQ.

Check it out.

 

[S'mon]

Check the official D&D frequently asked questions document on the website for the answer to this frequently asked question.

No, you do not need to take the feat multiple times.

Yes, you can apply multiple metamagic feats to a single spell or multiple instances of the same metamagic feat to a single spell so long as you are capable of casting the spell in the higher spell slot.

Yes, there are lots of stipulations, exceptions, and specific rules that apply to this that are covered in the FAQ.

Check it out.

Hm, I've just reread the PHB errata on Feats, it specifically says that you can't stack the same feat unless otherwise noted in the PHB, and nowhere in my PHB does it say you can stack multiple Empowers. Is the FAQ the sole source for this rule that you can stack Empowers? If so, was the FAQ written by a munchkin?

I'll go look for it now...

 

[Jeremy]

Skip Williams the Munchkin. Now there's something that the usually ultraconservative Sage is rarely referred to as.

Not that people lack for choice phrases to impart on him at any time, but munchkin is not usually one of the favorites.

"Multiple Metamagic Feats on a Spell: A spellcaster can use multiple metamagic feats on a single spell. Changes to its level are cumulative."

Now admittedly it doesn't specifically say you can use the same feat multiple times on a spell, but that's why it's a frequently asked question. It's a frequently asked question that is in the FAQ because the Sage has frequently answered it. Yes, you can empower a spell multiple times if you have the spell slots available to do so. That darn munchkin Sage.

 

[S'mon]

Skip Williams the Munchkin. Now there's something that the usually ultraconservative Sage is rarely referred to as.

Not that people lack for choice phrases to impart on him at any time, but munchkin is not usually one of the favorites.

"Multiple Metamagic Feats on a Spell: A spellcaster can use multiple metamagic feats on a single spell. Changes to its level are cumulative."

Now admittedly it doesn't specifically say you can use the same feat multiple times on a spell, but that's why it's a frequently asked question. It's a frequently asked question that is in the FAQ because the Sage has frequently answered it. Yes, you can empower a spell multiple times if you have the spell slots available to do so. That darn munchkin Sage.

OK, thanks. {slight rant follows}

I have the strong impression that the Sage's advice in Dragon tends to the cr*p side of mediocre. Furthermore, IMO while Jonathan Tweet's PHB is an absolutely brilliant piece of work, and Monte Cook's DMG is pretty darn good, Williams' Monster Manual is pretty mediocre, a rather shoddy effort whose failings are exemplified by contrast with the PHB - eg the sample CRs at the back of my 1st-print PHB seem spot on, while in the MM they've been changed, IMO wrongly (CR 1 ghouls, CR 2 ogres, etc). So unless Jonathan Tweet has said this re multiple stacking of the same metamagic feat I suspect it's not what he intended, and will have no place in my game. {rant ends}

 

[Jeremy]

That's going to be difficult as Mr. Tweet is one of the least vocal game designers of the 3e design team. I couldn't tell you 5 things he's said since 3e's launch though I agree, he put together a very solid book.

If it's any consolation, my group has known about and used this rule since playtest days and has not had any problems with it save for the occasional high DC now using an eagle's splendor or fox's cunning spell multiple empowered. But then as those two spells aren't core, you may not have any problems at all.

I'm sure others can attest to the same.

 

[S'mon]

OK, thanks. {slight rant follows}

I have the strong impression that the Sage's advice in Dragon tends to the cr*p side of mediocre. Furthermore, IMO while Jonathan Tweet's PHB is an absolutely brilliant piece of work, and Monte Cook's DMG is pretty darn good, Williams' Monster Manual is pretty mediocre, a rather shoddy effort whose failings are exemplified by contrast with the PHB - eg the sample CRs at the back of my 1st-print PHB seem spot on, while in the MM they've been changed, IMO wrongly (CR 1 ghouls, CR 2 ogres, etc). So unless Jonathan Tweet has said this re multiple stacking of the same metamagic feat I suspect it's not what he intended, and will have no place in my game. {rant ends}

Just been ploughing through the FAQ - he starts off ok with discussion of character generation, but it all falls apart by the time he gets to Feats. I love the stuff about using improved-two weapon fighting with Whirlwind Attack, or the but about how Cleave & Great Cleave don't require the Full Attack option...
The bit about stacking Great Cleave with Whirlwind attack certainly gave me pause.

And you say Skip's no munchkin?

 

[S'mon]

Just been ploughing through the FAQ - he starts off ok with discussion of character generation, but it all falls apart by the time he gets to Feats. I love the stuff about using improved-two weapon fighting with Whirlwind Attack, or the but about how Cleave & Great Cleave don't require the Full Attack option...
The bit about stacking Great Cleave with Whirlwind attack certainly gave me pause.

And you say Skip's no munchkin?

PS: I particularly liked the bit where he says that Expertise stacks with Fighting Defensively. That it says the opposite in the PHB he happily dismisses "Some people think that..."

His ruling that you don't actually have to be in combat to use Expertise seems almost sane by comparison, albeit a clear contradiction of the PHB's intent "...when you use the attack action or full attack action in melee..."

I'm sure there are countless more gems in there, but I've found the bit about sending damage through the roof by applying Empower Spell as often as you like, so I'll stop there.

I have to hand it to Skip, the man is shameless. He seems to be doing his best to singlehandedly trash the carefully balanced system the PHB propounds - which, after many months, I have finally been convinced is a finely balanced work of craftsmanship. But it's finely balanced _as written_, not after Skip "Ogres are CR 2!" has gotten a-hold of it...

Sorry for hijacking, back to scheculed programming.

 

[Bob5th]

I'm sure there are countless more gems in there, but I've found the bit about sending damage through the roof by applying Empower Spell as often as you like, so I'll stop there.

Damage through the roof? Nay I say.

4x Empowered Magic Missle takes a 9th level slot.
Can do an average damage of 52.5 [(5d4+5)* 3] to a single target and allow no save.

Meteor Swarm also takes a 9th level slot.
Can do an average damage of 84 (24d6) to a single target with no save.