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Best Warrior/Mage Combos

Thanee said:
And the Greater Blink seems rather wasted, if you drop the foe in one round. :p

Bye
Thanee


Not if you consider that wraithstrike makes all attacks melee touch, and greater blink causes the opponent to be flat-footed. Can we say AC 9 (+ deflection)? Makes power attack for full a done deal.

One of my players uses this combo (minus the blink) with spellsword channeling and a spellstoring weapon. Has to borrow d6 from two other players. Unloads horrendous damage on a single target. Granted only a coupla times a day, but its still horrendous. I plan on nerfing wraithstrike in my next campaign. One attack is still useful, but the full round of touch attacks at higher levels is just unfair. No other second level spell scales quite as well as wraithstrike.
 

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Thanee said:
ring of arcane might and Greater Shadow Conjuration mimicking Create Magic Tattoo.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention, that the scrolls actually have caster level 17th, if she casts them, thanks to her nifty ring of theurgy. :)

I wouldn't allow Greater Shadow Conjuration to mimic Create Magic Tattoo since CMT does not create an object, creature, or force as per Shadow Conjuration. It creates an effect (one that cannot be saved against for disbelief). Your DM is letting you slide with that one.

Also, where does it state that you can use a scroll to place a spell into the Ring of Theurgy? The MT could put the spell there for you, but it does not state that you can use another item to put a spell into that ring.

Boy, you would hate my game. The DM is too picky. :D
 

KarinsDad said:
I wouldn't allow Greater Shadow Conjuration to mimic Create Magic Tattoo since CMT does not create an object, creature, or force as per Shadow Conjuration. It creates an effect (one that cannot be saved against for disbelief). Your DM is letting you slide with that one.

Also, where does it state that you can use a scroll to place a spell into the Ring of Theurgy? The MT could put the spell there for you, but it does not state that you can use another item to put a spell into that ring.

Boy, you would hate my game. The DM is too picky. :D
I'm not sure if it spells out that you can use scrolls to fill a Ring of Theurgy, but that seems to be the intent--specifically the Web Enhancement for Complete Arcane has a Seul Arcanomach using scrolls to put some of the Warmage spells into a Ring of Theurgy so he can pose as a Warmage.
 

If i should make a melee/caster i would do a sorc6/FighterX with quickdraw and spell storing weapons... at 6th level the sorc will be able to cast 3rd level spell.. which more or less are the most useful overall. Then i would just store some Shocking grasp or an enmpowered version in the weapon.. which the sorc numbers or spells it shouldn't be a problem. Store the spells out of combat.. and within fight with a mithril full plate or something. with each attack dealing normal weapon damage + 5d6x1.5 extra damage...
a Sorc/EK could work this way too.. though they would lack some important feat but have a higher casterlevel.

A Druid or Cleric could also EASILY fill that grap too...
 

Gnome said:
"Gish" is just slang for fighter/wizard combos.

Yes. Really silly-sounding slang derived from the fighter/mage caste of the githyanki. Popularized on the WOTC min/max boards, I believe, and possibly one of the most ridiculous D&D-related slang words I've ever come across.

Cheers,
Cam
 

Definately very silly, which is why it is fun ;) Especially as it is used in so many situations it has almost lost all meaning..lol
 

Rystil Arden said:
I'm not sure if it spells out that you can use scrolls to fill a Ring of Theurgy, but that seems to be the intent--specifically the Web Enhancement for Complete Arcane has a Seul Arcanomach using scrolls to put some of the Warmage spells into a Ring of Theurgy so he can pose as a Warmage.

Interesting.

I tend to disallow backdoor loopholes which avoid a class limitation. In this case, not only allowing the Sorcerer to cast non-Sorcerer spells, but also to buy up a bunch of cheap low caster level non-Sorcerer scrolls (which he also could not use without the proper abilities) and then turn around and bump the caster level of the scroll through the roof via another item. If the ring states it can do that (which it doesn't), it should be reflected in the cost of the ring. A Ring of Theurgy is cheap at 20,000 GP. Even a Ring of Minor Spell Storing costs 50,000 GP. I think WotC foobared on the cost here and because of that, I wouldn't give it that level of versatility.
 

I'll have to dig up my Havoc Mage build. He didn't have a great BAB, but he was able to do a full Power Attack while hitting Touch AC (using Deep Impact feat from XPH) and with a +20 to hit (from True Strike).
 

Elder-Basilisk said:
I take it you think that the fighter/wizard is inherently underpowered then?



I'm not sure what you mean by far more fighter than wizard. At 17th level, he's casting 8th level spells--in terms of spells/day, he's only two levels behind a full-level wizard and in terms of caster level, he's even. (Of course, that's a bit misleading because he doesn't have Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Empower Spell, etc like a spellcasting focused wizard would have). He fights in melee a lot, but that's the role of a fighter/wizard. It's rather difficult to get more spellcasting capability on a fighter/mage without abandoning the fighter part of the role.



Yeah, but he can spend those ten rounds ahead of time. In combat, he can be putting out the offense at nearly full strength in round 1.
With wraithstrike: activate contingent greater blink, quickdraw a lesser rod of extend spell, cast wraithstrike (extend with the rod), drop the rod, quickdraw his primary weapon, arcane strike a 6th, 7th, or 8th level spell, Power Attack for full, click on his boots of speed, and make a full attack. At 16th level, that combo dropped a fully buffed Cornugon from full hit points to -40 in one round with no warning or rounds of prep. (I suspect most 16th level fighters would take at least two rounds to kill a Cornugon in that situation).

Without wraithstrike, the zero to hero routine would be activate contingent blink, click on boots of speed, arcane strike his least useful high level spell, power attack for as much as he can afford, and make a full attack. Since he doesn't have any spells that fill the same role as wraithstrike, the quickened spell/swift action can be used for a quickened ray of enfeeblement, quickened scorching ray, or a quickened whirling blade (to get at least one extra attack in at full BAB and Arcane Strike).

Of course, he's better with prep. Prep time is as follows:

24 hours a day: mind blank, mage armor (just in case there are incorporeal undead floating around), false life, greater magic weapon (on everything), low-light vision, contingency, energy immunity, anticipate teleportation, overland flight (potentially--I don't usually do this though), and unseen servant (to pick up everything he drops.

In a non-living campaign, we'd add: Limited Wish for Stalwart Pact (permanent until discharged).

12 hours a day: see invisibility

With +/- 3 hours warning: alter self, dragonskin, heroism, etc. (low-level 10 min/level buffs extended with a lesser rod).

With +/- 1.5 hours warning: spell turning (high level 10 min/level buffs).

With +/- 10 min warning: shield, fly, mirror image, brilliant blade, polymorph

With rounds to prep (because we control the encounter), empowered fires of purity (rod), greater blink (non-contingent), iron body (if appropriate), displacement, greater invisibility.

Mostly, prep time improves the fighter/wizard's defenses and mobility. (My character will get 11 points of AC and +2 to all saves at the +/- 3 hours mark; he only gets a net +1 to hit because he usually already benefits from hero's feast). Round/level prep can also reduce the opportunity cost of ramping up immediately (you don't want to blow your contingency if you don't need to--having a Cornugon within reach of the entire party qualified as a "you need it" moment) and give offense a boost with fires of purity. That, however, is mostly overkill.


alrighty then...????

Before I reply to that I am going to pull to books out and take a peek - dude tyhis seems insane that you can get away with that in a single round and I am not sure you should be able to cast some of those spells (could be wrong).

However - NO WAY would I allow so many actions in one round in my campaign; dam the rules if need be! If I did then the EL's would certainly make it impossible - or would have EXACTLY the same stuff you have.

If you are able to do all that and take down so many bad guys - well your EL's need some upward adjustments for certain - seeing as with all that magic (which I would also never allow for a non-epic) you ain't no 17th level character. You shoudl ahve some risk that any opponent can take you down - if you can actually do all this (or just plain allowed to - outside the RAW) I don't see that happening with the EL's for 17th level
 

green slime said:
He (Elder Basilisk) also forgot to state that he could recite the Gettysburg address at the same time. Speech being a free action, and all. ;)

Personally, I don't think I'd allow that many free actions. But it was entertaining reading! :D

The funny thing is that you actually don't need that many free actions to pull it off. The wraithstrike version needs more, but it can be pared down to rather few free actions.

Wraithstrike
0-1. Activate contingency. Depending upon how clever you are with your contingency, this need not take an action separate from any other. You could, for instance trigger it to activate when you cast an extended wraithstrike instead of when you say "Oh crap!" in celestial. (Heck, you could set it to activate when your familiar says something specific).
0-2. Quickdraw a lesser rod of extend spell. This is really only for style and setup for next round when the first round's extended wraithstrike would enable you to get both a quickened whirling blade and a regular whirling blade as touch attacks.
1-3. Cast wraithstrike
1-4. Drop the rod (unnecessary if you don't extend the spell)
1-5. Quickdraw primary weapon (unecessary if you don't extend the wraithstrike)
2-6. Activate Arcane Strike
3-7. Activate boots of speed
3-7. Power Attack for full
4-8. Make full attack.

If you pare it down, you only really need four total actions (including the full attack) for it--certainly no more than a battle cleric who casts a quickened divine favor (1), activates Divine Might (2), Activates boots of Speed (3), full attacks (4). And I don't think there are many DMs who think that's too many actions to pull off. Quickdraw and the other stuff are all for style points.

Without wraithstrike, it's even simpler and only requires two free actions: the boots of speed and Arcane Strike.
 

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