Best Warrior/Mage Combos

[Pielorinho]

You want a house rule. That's fine. But lets not pretend it's RAW. You can clearly replicate any Conjuation (Creation) spell. Period.

Moderator's Notes
Mistwell, please read the sticky at the top of this forum. Meanwhile, do not post again in this thread. Comments like the quoted one are behind a lot of the heat in this forum.

Daniel

 

[FireLance]

I like the flow of pal/sorc, but they whole point of this endeavor is to get away from my clerical and monkish companions expositions about their religions, so I'm going to have to veto that.

Pity, or I'd have suggested a Bard 7/Paladin 2/Eldritch Knight 1/Sublime Chord 2, and continue taking Eldritch Knight levels to increase Sublime Chord spellcasting. You need Devoted Performer from Complete Adeventurer to pull this off, and Able Learner from Races of Destiny helps with gaining skills, and Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn provides a nice combat boost, too. There's some rules uncertainty, but you can always substitute Knight Phantom levels for Eldritch Knight levels to get around that. If you don't want to play a paladin, you could substitute fighter, ranger or barbarian levels, but paladin really allows you to get the most from your likely-high Charisma.

 

[Thanee]

I wouldn't allow Greater Shadow Conjuration to mimic Create Magic Tattoo since CMT does not create an object, creature, or force as per Shadow Conjuration. It creates an effect (one that cannot be saved against for disbelief). Your DM is letting you slide with that one.

I don't think it's such a big deal, it's a 7th level spell used instead of a 2nd level one after all.

Also, where does it state that you can use a scroll to place a spell into the Ring of Theurgy?

It doesn't. It's just something one needs to decide on, we saw no reason to disallow it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I tend to disallow backdoor loopholes which avoid a class limitation. In this case, not only allowing the Sorcerer to cast non-Sorcerer spells, ...

It does not allow the casting of non-Sorcerer spells.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Are you implying that you can have more than 3 tats by using shadow conjuation to do it?

I really don't see where you got that idea from, but no.

I'm using it for one tattoo only (I don't have THAT many 7th level slots yet, and it still has a 40% failure chance ).

I'm not sure I understand the advantage to using Shadow Conjuation to do it then, unless it's a matter of "I don't have to have Magical Tattoo on my Known Spells List". If that's the case, then it makes perfect sense.

Yep, and no material component, but that's just a minor perk, really. 100 gp is not much at this level.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

It also says "object, force, or creature". It says it twice.

And why is a tattoo not an object? What else should it be? It's physically present, after all.

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

And why is a tattoo not an object? What else should it be? It's physically present, after all.

You do not conjure the ink of the Tattoo, it is supplied as a 100 GP material component.

You draw the tattoo on (effectively since you need artistic Craft skill). It has a 10 minute casting time.

It is listed as a Conjuration (Creation) spell, but it doesn't create any Conjuration effects, mostly Abjuration effects.

The author got it totally wrong. It happens.


Examples of core spells that Create Magic Tattoo comes close to mimicking:

+2 Resistance Bonus to one type of save (Resistance, Abjuration)
+1 Luck Bonus on attack rolls (Divine Favor, Evocation)
+1 Deflection Bonus to AC (Shield of Faith, Abjuration)

+2 Resistance Bonus on all saves (Resistance, Abjuration)
+2 Competence Bonus on attack rolls (Guidance, Divination, no other core spell gives a competence bonus on attack rolls)

Spell Resistance (10+1/6 caster level, super wimpy), (Spell Resistance, Abjuration)
+2 Enhancement Bonus to ANY one ability score (Bull's Strength, Transmutation)
+1 spellcasting ability - I cannot find a core spell that adds to spellcasting ability, this is borderline broken, even the Ring of Arcane Might requires Limited Wish (Universal) and Greater Magic Weapon (Transmutation) to craft.

Maybe the Universal school would be a good one for this spell since it touches on so many different schools of magic.


Quite frankly, I want some of what the designer of this spell was smoking. He combined all of the Enhancement bonus spells into one spell (granted, +2 instead of +4, but for 24 hours instead of 1 minute per level). He rolled a bunch of Abjuration spells into a Conjuration spell. And he created a spell with 9 separate distinct effects.


Not only that, but Shadow Conjuration also has another problem with respect to Create Magic Tattoo. It does not require Material Component costs like all other spells which mimic other spells. That's a game design flaw (with Shadow Conjuration, not with Create Magic Tattoo). Course, few of the core Conjuration(Creation) spells have an expensive material component except Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion (15 GP at 7th level) and Wall of Iron (50 GP at 6th level) and Sepia Snake Sigil (500 GP at 3rd level). Most do not have a material component at all.

Course, of these 3 (and all of the other core Conjuration (Creation) spells), all of them have an easily discernable visible effect. The Tattoo can be easily hidden so nobody even knows it is there (so, the DM might not require a Will Save for interacting with something you do not directly interact with or see).


I'm not impressed with the game knowledge of the designer of this spell. This is how balance problems creep into a game because a game designer doesn't know what he is doing.

 

[Thanee]

It is listed as a Conjuration (Creation) spell, but it doesn't create any Conjuration effects, mostly Abjuration effects.

The author got it totally wrong. It happens.

That might be, but there are certainly other ways to see it, as well.

And it is listed as a Conjuration (Creation) spell, right?

So, either it is wrong, or not, but as listed it certainly does conjure up something, like a magical tattoo. Maybe the inks are needed as a 'homing device', to show the tattoo, where it's going to appear? I don't know. I only know what's listed there...

And whether it is right or now, it's a matter of +1 caster level, or 100 gp and a 2nd level spell known. Not really something to worry about.

I'm not impressed with the game knowledge of the designer of this spell. This is how balance problems creep into a game because a game designer doesn't know what he is doing.

Yes, Shadow Conjuration does have some issues, but it's mostly some weirdness with certain effects, not really game balance problems.

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

Yes, Shadow Conjuration does have some issues, but it's mostly some weirdness with certain effects, not really game balance problems.

Actually, I was talking about Create Magic Tattoo having issues, not Shadow Conjuration.


Shadow Conjuration is a nice (weaker version) spontaneous cast "spells you do not have or do not have memorized" spell. The only problem with it is the material component issue (TMK).


Create Magic Tattoo is totally mis-schooled. It conjures nothing. It abjures a lot.


And, there are many other spells that are borderline one school borderline another where the designers had to choose. Create Magic Tattoo is not one of these. It flat out does not have a single Conjuration (Creation) effect in its entire list. Saying that it conjures the tattoo itself (with the inks and artistic crafting of the caster supplied) is fairly weak as a discussion point.

IMO, the designer screwed up. Wouldn't be the first time, but this one is fairly obvious.

 

[Thanee]

Ah, ok, your earlier statement about the material components and other stuff in conjunction with Shadow Conjuration misled me then.

Bye
Thanee