D&D 5E Your best Eldritch Knight?

[ECMO3]

Actually, the Invisibility and Cause Fear is actually from Shadow Touched (it's listed in Feats) .

I had gone the Dexterity route as I thought it would be better for AC and saves and not spread ability scores out too much. I do see though, that it is hitting on damage output.

Why does everyone seem to recommend Booming Blade? I don't see that the damage triggers until the target moves (not via push or forced movement). So unless your somehow moving away from the foe, or moving the foe to force it to come back after you that would be the only way to trigger the damage and you risk the target just standing still and using a ranged attack of some sort for the round. Or am I missing something - shoving attack or some other feature that pushes the foe away?

I had completely missed the Shadow Touched feat.

As far as booming blade there is the main damage (after level 5) and the secondary damage and there are numerous ways to force or encourage movement. Create Bonfire, Spirit Guardians, Dissonant Whispers or any AOE cast by an ally (with DW the damage would come when he tried to move back into combat). Also the Crusher Feat, which I personally would take instead of Defensive Duelist. Also the shield spell is going to be more effective than defensive duelist. Finally there is just having another damage type.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

My memories of fighter/magic-users from 1E/2E most likely is influencing my disdain. Fireball at 13th level or later is just jank.

Our group didn't have access to booming/green-flame blade until recently via Tasha's, as I didn't have SCAG or know about the two spells until recently, and on paper neither seemed very impressive.

The only Eldritch Knight I've seen in actual play until this point was run by, who shall is say, is clueless and often shines at building utterly ineffective characters. So, all of my disdain towards the subclass has so far had been validated.

Makes sense. Two important points to consider.

Eldritch Knight is not a 5e analog of the AD&D fighter/mage. It utterly fails at that due to it being limited to low level spells.

(Because neither the Eldritch Knight nor the Bladesinger really hit that spot for me I made my own Warrior-Mage class with a few subclasses to evoke that classic feel.)

But the Eldritch Knight is a Fighter, and must be compared to other fighters. Battle Master is a good baseline for that.

A major element of its functionality is those SCAG weapon attack cantrips. I don't get a lot out of booming blade, because of the reasons you noted. I think its mostly used tactically. But green-flame blade is incredible. Just math out how it scales. If you have an additional adjacent foe (which is most of the time if you are wading into battle and the DM is throwing multiple foes at you like 5e was designed for) you are always better off using green-flame blade for 2 weapon attacks +scaling primary target damage +scaling secondary target damage, than just making 3 attacks. And depending on your individual setup and gear, you may still be more effective that way at 20th level (though against a single target you would skip that and just make your 4 attacks).

Quick example of at-will damage output of a sword and board 11th level Eldritch Knight with no magic gear.

3 Attacks: 1d8+5+2(fighting style) x3 = 34.5 damage
Green-flame Blade + War Magic: 1d8+5+2(fighting style) x2 +2d8 GFB = 32 damage to primary target, plus 2d8+3 (let's say your Int is only 16) = 12 damage to a secondary target, for a total of 56.5 damage.

 

[Stormonu]

That makes a lot of sense @Sword of Spirit, thanks. I've been working on a custom class as well as the EK didn't hit the notes I expected for a fighter/magic-user combo. I'm seeing this subclass was designed more towards the fighting aspect augmented by spells more than as a utility caster (batman) who could fight.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Quick example of at-will damage output of a sword and board 11th level Eldritch Knight with no magic gear.

3 Attacks: 1d8+5+2(fighting style) x3 = 34.5 damage
Green-flame Blade + War Magic: 1d8+5+2(fighting style) x2 +2d8 GFB = 32 damage to primary target, plus 2d8+3 (let's say your Int is only 16) = 12 damage to a secondary target, for a total of 56.5 damage.

The "no magic gear" is both officially correct and an exceptionally annoying 5e-ism.

If we take a more reasonable +2 weapon (which is the minimum I'd expect for a level 11 character; a rare but unattuned weapon) we're up to 40.5 Vs 36 damage on the primary target plus 12 on the secondary. Halving the secondary target damage as it's not as useful for focus fire we're at 40.5 Vs 42. The EK cantrip's glory time is levels 7-10.

And if we're using for example a Flame-Tongue Longsword (rare, so equivalent to +2 and also appropriate for L11), +2d6 fire damage, requires attunement we're looking at 55.5 damage Vs 46 +12 to the secondary target. Barely worth it.

Just to reiterate @Sword of Spirit has done the analysis exactly how the DMG says, with no assumed magic items. This is a problem with 5e not giving magic item benchmarks.

 

[Scottyj1985]

Straight off, I don't like the Eldritch Knight, I think it's a horrible subclass. I've seen some rumblings otherwise, so I wanted to see what other folks might be using or doing to enjoy the class.

RULE #1: NO MULTICLASSING
RULE #2: NO ASSUMPTION OF MAGIC ITEMS

This is about the subclass itself, without having to augment it with another class or through magic items. I'd like to see people's level-by-level build for their "best" or most enjoyable way to build the class. I'm mostly approaching this from the DM's side of things, just to see if I'm misunderstanding the subclass. Doesn't have to be built all the way to 20th, I'm really just interested in how it plays up to 8th level, maybe 12th level at most. Any good tricks/combos/insights that help understand it better I'd really appreciate.

For Eldritch Knight I go V. Human to get the Polearm Master feat so I can have an extra way of making opportunity attacks. At level 3 when I take the subclass, I pick Booming Blade as a cantrip. At level 4 I pick the Warcaster feat which will allow a cantrip to be cast as an opportunity attack. This is crucial as now at this point you can make an OA if someone enters or leaves your space AND use the Booming Blade cantrip to make that OA, and since the target is already in motion, they would automatically take the additional thunder damage. At level 5 booming blade does 1d8 added to the strike and 2d8 if the creature moves before the start of your next turn, which again is automatically applied during an OA. At level 6 go with Elemental Adept and pick Thunder so your booming blade ignores thunder resistance. At level 7 you get War Magic which allows you to substitute one of your attacks from the attack action with a cantrip spell (booming blade). For weapons btw I would recommend a spear and a halberd as your weapon choices. The reason for the spear is that its a thrown weapon which you could bond with and summon back to your hand as a bonus action. For the halberd, it increases your threat range for a greater chance to get those OAs. Levels 10 and 15 give some OK but not great features, but at level 18 you get Improved War Magic which lets you cast a level spell then cast a weapon attack as a bonus action. One of the key spells you want asap is Enlarge/Reduce. Other than the obvious benefits, your reach increases by 5ft when you grow a size, so your threat space is now even bigger for more chances to get that OA. If you want to further getting OAs you can get maneuvers as a feat and add riposte which would let you make an OA if someone attacks you and misses. Personally I would go with the Speedy feat for the increased movement, +1 AS, and OAs having disadvantage against you. But thats the main gist of my preferred Eldritch Knight build.

 

[Scottyj1985]

sry didnt mean to respond twice

 

[ECMO3]

If we take a more reasonable +2 weapon (which is the minimum I'd expect for a level 11 character; a rare but unattuned weapon) we're up to 40.5 Vs 36 damage on the primary target plus 12 on the secondary.

This can vary widely depending on the game. I am playing 2 games right now with the same DM. My Rogue/Warlock/Paladin multiclass is level 9 and has no magic weapon. My Ranger/Momk multiclass is level 7 and has a +1 Ywkla, +2 Javelin, +1 Hand Axe, Dagger of Venom, Mace of Smiting (basically a Mace +1 which does critical against constructs) and Longsword Flametongue.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Dang, this is the thread I should have posted this:

Magic initiate lets you choose your spellcasting stat now. If you take druid and take Shillelagh, you can drop STR for INT and melee with your Int using a staff. Maybe pair it up with polearm master? IDK. Can't use it with an actual polearm, though.

Thoughts?

 

[Zardnaar]

Dang, this is the thread I should have posted this:

Magic initiate lets you choose your spellcasting stat now. If you take druid and take Shillelagh, you can drop STR for INT and melee with your Int using a staff. Maybe pair it up with polearm master? IDK. Can't use it with an actual polearm, though.

Thoughts?

PAM doesn't boost a mental stat.

I'm thinking fae or shadow touched for hex or hunters mark if you go down shillagh path.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

This is tricky. Sorry if I talk out loud for a sec.

I don’t want to dump charisma or dex because sneak and persuasion are important in heist adventures. I’m currently dumping wisdom.

I’m waffling on 16 Int and 14 Str or 16 Str and 14 Int. I kind of want a 14 charisma. I’m ok with a 10 dex.

I guess the other option is to go as a dex fighter. ( Every time I go to make a str fighter, they end up being dex because there’s no advantage to playing.a str fighter. Besides heavy armour, I guess))

Shillelagh really feels like a one-trick pony. But maybe between that and a high dex, I can make it work. Maybe I just dump str all together.

edit: really giving up the ability to wear heavy armour. Not sure if this is worth it but campaign isn't going super high levels