D&D 5E Best Way to Challenge this Sorcadin, without high level spells

Let me double check my math here to make sure I'm not doing multiclassing wrong.

Its a Paladin 8 / Sorc 2 (10th level).
That's 4 1st level slots for the paladin, 3 (+1 when expending the sorc points) for the sorc, so 8 1st level slots a day.
See the Multiclassing spell table on of 164 of the PHB. The Paladin 8/Sorc 2 is essentially a 6th level caster. 4/3/3 for spell slots.


I generally run 2-3 combats a day (I never run the 6-8 encounters that are the norm). And yes I fully know that makes certain builds like this stronger, but yeah I'm just never ever going to run that much combat in my games.

Do your adventuring days ever stretch over multiple sessions? That’s an easy way to get more than “2-3 combats a day” without feeling like you have too much combat during any one session.
 

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ezo

Where is that Singe?
Let me double check my math here to make sure I'm not doing multiclassing wrong.

Its a Paladin 8 / Sorc 2 (10th level).
That's 4 1st level slots for the paladin, 3 (+1 when expending the sorc points) for the sorc, so 8 1st level slots a day.
Yeah, that is wrong... Paladin counts as half-level, so 4 levels, and Sorcerer counts full, +2 levels.

This PC has the spell slots of a 6th level caster. Just 4 1st-level slots.

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The sorcerer points could add another.
 

Let me double check my math here to make sure I'm not doing multiclassing wrong.

Its a Paladin 8 / Sorc 2 (10th level).
That's 4 1st level slots for the paladin, 3 (+1 when expending the sorc points) for the sorc, so 8 1st level slots a day.


I generally run 2-3 combats a day (I never run the 6-8 encounters that are the norm). And yes I fully know that makes certain builds like this stronger, but yeah I'm just never ever going to run that much combat in my games.

I will note that I do tell the paladin they are hit and then they choose to use shield, but don't tell them the numbers so they always have to guess the shield will help (though so far it always has!) But even with 22 AC they don't always get hit in a round, so often 1 shield (which effectively lasts for two rounds in some cases) can last an entire fight.
Target weak ability scores with Contested Checks (mostly these), Saving Throws (not as many or it feels cheap). Still target it with normal attacks too so it feels good for its huge AC, but yeah, you get the idea.
 

dave2008

Legend
Let me double check my math here to make sure I'm not doing multiclassing wrong.

Its a Paladin 8 / Sorc 2 (10th level).
That's 4 1st level slots for the paladin, 3 (+1 when expending the sorc points) for the sorc, so 8 1st level slots a day.


I generally run 2-3 combats a day (I never run the 6-8 encounters that are the norm). And yes I fully know that makes certain builds like this stronger, but yeah I'm just never ever going to run that much combat in my games.

I will note that I do tell the paladin they are hit and then they choose to use shield, but don't tell them the numbers so they always have to guess the shield will help (though so far it always has!) But even with 22 AC they don't always get hit in a round, so often 1 shield (which effectively lasts for two rounds in some cases) can last an entire fight.
Stalker, I know you have used waves of monsters before. Isn't that the simple way to eat up reactions?
 

DrJawaPhD

Adventurer
Anyone have any good recommendations on good traps, npcs, or monsters to use against this kind of character?
All the AC in the world doesn't matter if the monsters just attack other characters. This isn't an MMORPG there's no reason you actually have to target the tank.

On the other hand, I'd probably just lean into it and add extra minion NPCs to every fight and have them all go after the Sorcadin (assuming they present themselves as a front-line tank type). Best case scenario having extra attack rolls lets you burn through those spell slots and finally score some hits. Other best case scenario is no attacks get thru, the player feels like a badass tank and the casters get to AOE blast some minions down.

Also I know you said no house rule banning spells, but consider banning Silvery Barbs. That's just always a good idea period.
 


TheSword

Legend
All the AC in the world doesn't matter if the monsters just attack other characters. This isn't an MMORPG there's no reason you actually have to target the tank.

On the other hand, I'd probably just lean into it and add extra minion NPCs to every fight and have them all go after the Sorcadin (assuming they present themselves as a front-line tank type). Best case scenario having extra attack rolls lets you burn through those spell slots and finally score some hits. Other best case scenario is no attacks get thru, the player feels like a badass tank and the casters get to AOE blast some minions down.

Also I know you said no house rule banning spells, but consider banning Silvery Barbs. That's just always a good idea period.
This is definitely good advice. Don’t waste main-line attacks on the sorcadin. Tie up with minions.

Other options to consider:

Open up the battlefield - larger areas mean the sorcadin can’t hold choke-points and will struggle to maneuver around. Also reduces the likelihood of everyone being in the aura.

Powerful AOEs like dragon’s breath weapon really make the party decide hard between clustering around the Paladin or spreading out. Half 12d8 is still a not insignificant amount of damage.

Longer combats - if they need to cast shield every round then simply increase the volume of enemies. Or run combat in waves.

Damage armour - several creatures affect armour. What about a trap that dumps Grey ooze slime onto the for - have it target dex save rather than an attack roll.

Use the armour as a liability - anything crossing water. Or traps where the water level rises.

Target the shield spell - Counterspell, anti-magic sphere, beholders central eye. Etc.

But ultimately - ignoring the sorcadin is the simplest and most efficient way of coping with it.
 

TheSword

Legend
It’s worth noting that a single feat can net the shield spell, along with two cantrips. So it isn’t even necessary to multi-class.
 

Clint_L

Legend
Let me double check my math here to make sure I'm not doing multiclassing wrong.

Its a Paladin 8 / Sorc 2 (10th level).
That's 4 1st level slots for the paladin, 3 (+1 when expending the sorc points) for the sorc, so 8 1st level slots a day.
As Ezo pointed out, you're definitely doing it wrong, and greatly to the benefit of the sorcadin. I suspect they are going to be a sad puppy when you refer them to multiclassing at the top of chapter 6 in the PHB.
 

ECMO3

Hero
Also I know you said no house rule banning spells, but consider banning Silvery Barbs. That's just always a good idea period.

I don't see a big issue with Silvery Barbs. It is not nearly as powerful or game-breaking as other 1st level spells, Shield in particular.

I will say it is disruptive in play, and for that reason I don't see it much any more. IME most players avoid it. When I do see it today, it is usually on Bards who can't get Shield.

Most players I play with won't take that as a spell because of how it slows down combat, but if they do take it, that means they want it and if they want it, why ban it?

Same with Guidance. I will say with Guidance I do pay attention to RAW. It is an action and it is concentration. So if the Rogue says I pick the lock on the chest, and the Cleric follows with "I cast Guidance", well the Rogue spoke first so he rolls his ability check without the guidance. Then he has it and can use it on a future check. Then whatever the Cleric was already concentrating on goes down and it is fairly often it takes down a Shield of Faith or Protection from Good and Evil or Spirit Guardians. Once it ended a Summon Celestial before the party was even in a single fight.

I think too many DMs play Guidance like a reaction and they ignore the concentration part of it that cancels other concentration spells.
 

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