Best weapon for an avenger

[Flipguarder]

Seems like a simple question but is it? What do you consider the best overall weapon for an avenger and does it depend on the type of avenger played.

 

[keterys]

I'm expecting a whole lot of Fullblade as your answer. Guess we'll see though.

 

[Bohemund]

Given that you roll twice to hit when you activate your oath, I find Fullblade to be a less than ideal weapon. Rolling twice to hit gives a greatly increased crit chance, and I tend to lead towards Executioner's Axe for Avengers. Also, You can't go wrong with a Mordenkraad.

 

[Family]

Daggers; with two-weapon feats and the daggermaster paragon path.

 

[keterys]

Given that you roll twice to hit when you activate your oath, I find Fullblade to be a less than ideal weapon. Rolling twice to hit gives a greatly increased crit chance, and I tend to lead towards Executioner's Axe for Avengers. Also, You can't go wrong with a Mordenkraad.

Executioner Axe or Fullblade for the high crit was my thought, aye. Between the two it's +1 hit vs. +1 damage per W, basically. So from there it's what feats you might be able to use, perhaps.

I personally don't like the Mordenkrad, but I know others do.

The reason I said fullblade was purely because I've seen about a half dozen Avengers in play. And they all use Fullblades. I assumed it was some sorta Union requirement.

Good point on daggers and two weapon opening, though. Snick.

 

[Garthanos]

Oh yeah, you do sign the Avenger multi pantheon club entry forms and they do require the fullblade .... but occasionally somebody rebells and they have to be hunted down "one on one" hunts just aren't effective enough to be a sufficient deterrent so we bribe the laundromats to dose all your clothes with skunk juice if you are seen trying out other weapons... that really keeps them inline.

 

[Flipguarder]

Daggers; with two-weapon feats and the daggermaster paragon path.

Not the best weapon for a crit-fisher. If I wanted to know that, I would've asked. I'm just asking for a simple aveger, no messed up Optimized craziness.

 

[Garthanos]

I love the fullblade, but I watch too much anime too...

The executioners axe and dwarven hammer would probably be just fine too.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I love the fullblade, but I watch too much anime too...

The executioners axe and dwarven hammer would probably be just fine too.

Yeah, one of those 3. You want the biggest die possible.

Brad

 

[Garthanos]

Weapon Focus is more useful than weapon expertise.... (I consider both bland as well bread and water)

 

[Flipguarder]

Weapon Focus is more useful than weapon expertise.... (I consider both bland as well bread and water)

That is just incorrect to the Nth degree. What do you base that statement on? Hit is just substantially better than damage.

 

[keterys]

Well, I imagine that statement only applies to Avengers since their innate accuracy is much higher. Dunno how true it is.

 

[Obryn]

IMO, it's between the Executioner Axe and the Fullblade... And sometimes a Mordenkrad.

Fullblade: The extra +1 to-hit is kinda wasted, IMO, but it fits the stats better for a Pursuing Avenger, particularly if you keep Strength boosted pretty well, too.

Executioner's Axe: My fave. You don't need the extra +1 to-hit, and anything that does more damage is pretty cool for an Avenger. OTOH, you need Con + Str for a lot of feats, and you probably won't have either.

Although the Mordenkrad is my very favorite Exotic 2-H weapon, it usually sucks for Avengers - with one caveat. Sure, you get a meager damage boost, but without the High Crit property, you're missing some damage potential. Also, it's still Str/Con for feats, and Hammer Rhythym does you no good at all, anyway. With that said, a Crusader's Mordenkrad is potentially awesome if you have some Implement powers and a budget.

-O

 

[DracoSuave]

Weapon Focus is more useful than weapon expertise.... (I consider both bland as well bread and water)

I'd whip out some real-maths before blanket statements like this. Non of that 'assume you're 50/50 to hit before oath' stuff either, which has no real application beyond theorycraft, and doesn't follow actual hit progression.

You need to know your attack bonus, your average damage before both feats, and the general level of defense you tend to attack before you can make a statement like this.

And seeing as you can retrain into the superior one each level, the answer 'One is just better through your entire carreer' doesn't cut it for CharOp either.

That said....

Fullblade is easier to get paragon and epic feats for for most Avengers, and you'll actually use your paragon feat if you go through the trouble. Avengers simply have no business with Deadly Axe or Hammer Rhythem or Scimitar Dance.


All that said, Eternal Defender makes Execution Axe the clear forrunner. Brutal 2 on 2d6=gold.

 

[Kzach]

I haven't read any CharOp forums and didn't research any builds (I never do either) but generally I find I end up at the same conclusions. My current avenger is a pursuit avenger with a fullblade and I swear that the extra dice equal about 3-4 more crits per session than I would normally get (I seem to average 1.5 crits per LFR module with a normal character and 3.5 with my avenger), which is generally around 4 hours of play and 4 combat encounters).

And man do those crits hurt.

Having said that, mathematically the brutal weapons might only do equal damage or even just edge out the fullblade, but damn if in play they don't kick total ass. The amount of times I've seen 1's and 2's turn into 9's and 10's for damage rolls rather than hitting those averages, I swear in practice they're more lethal.

 

[Storminator]

I crunched some numbers a while ago. Here is the first pass of comparison. It doesn't take into account things like the paragon and epic weapon feats, but it's a decent starting place for discussion.

PS

 

[Klaus]

Executioner Axe. High Crit, Brutal...

People mentioned feats for optimizing it. IMHO you'd be better served by putting those feats to work on your class abilities.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, I imagine that statement only applies to Avengers since their innate accuracy is much higher. Dunno how true it is.

Yes it is a avenger specific comment ... they are so above the curve on to hit that increasing to hit is much much less consequence than normal. And over exagerated.... If you have a
55 percent to hit which goes up to 60 percent chance to hit ... the Avenger really is increasing from 79.75 percent to 84 percent chance... your average damage has to be 20 already before the +1 to hit is about the same as +1 damage... if your average damage is less than that take the bonus damage.

The numbers are wierd enough to be worth thinking about.

 

[Garthanos]

I'd whip out some real-maths before blanket statements like this. Non of that 'assume you're 50/50 to hit before oath' stuff either, which has no real application beyond theorycraft, and doesn't follow actual hit progression.

50/50 computation is a baseline which you can then differentiate either direction from.... If your party has a lot of characters able to buff your to hit a boost to to hit is even less useful and if your party has a lot of characters able to buff your damage to hit is more useful. The circumstance of your game will shift things around quite a bit.

Generally as average damage goes up... the value of it goes down... and as average to hit goes up the value of it goes down. The presence/frequency of minions... will nullify the usefulness of boosted damage.

When looking at the Avenger the poster needs to realize the numbers are dramatically different than they are used to looking at it is so normal that to hit is a lot better that people assume it always is... and for the Avenger that just isnt so... damage edges out to hit in many circumstances. How often you run in to enemies with high armor class and low hit points will also shift value.

A power attack for Avengers is almost always a solid trade... (except the resources to qualify for it are pretty darn high).

Understanding the situations under which it changes is important.l
The base damage getting higher over the course of there career and general relative defenses of monsters getting higher over the course of the characters careers .. makes the statement less true as the character levels... and yep being able to retrain means weapon choice can be a bit ... as you say moot.

 

[mneme]

At low levels, Executioner's Axe is clearly better for most races.

That said, there's more system support for heavy blades and hammers for Avengers than there is for axes (it's more plausable to qualify for the crit feat, and there's a paragon path for hammers, etc).

Also, Gith Pursuit Avengers must clearly take Fullblades, as they're crazy good with them. (and Pursuit avengers have a host of reasons to prefer fullblades -- from HBO if they're stupid, to Mobile Warrior, Blade Opportunist).

Basically:

Mordencrad (Hammers): There's a paragon path for them. It's even a pretty good, controlly paragon path. But no High Crit, which makes even non-crit-fishing Avengers sad. Also, con's the governing stat, and avengers don't have much con.

Axe (Executioner's Axe): Con and Str are the governing stats, so no tools for you. But best damage out the gate. Maybe system support wil happen later.

Fullblade: Best when it's hard to hit anyway. Dex is the governing stat, so great for Pursuit. More variety in enchantments than Axe.