bestow curse against skill usage

[KarinsDad]

I say smoke him without a warning.

If he is stupid enough to do this, the gene pool needs some chlorine.


We had a similar, but considerably less severe, problem this last weekend. Our party Cleric was just being obstinate and non-cooperative for an extended period of time (over silly stuff like which way to travel in a silver mine).

To me, that's crap.

So at one point when I needed her light source to ensure the safety of the party and she refused, my psion took a step back and gooed her (i.e. Entangling Ectoplasm). She got all bent out of shape over it and ran away stating that my PC was possessed, but party Cleric or not, PCs have to cooperate. If they want to pull this nonsense about being argumentative for no reason, or stealing from the party, or other harmful as opposed to helpful activities, then they should be taken down a peg.


Your case is more severe than this and deserves an extremely severe response, but it doesn't matter your alignment. Theft is theft. All alignments should be against it (especially if done to you) and you smack down a thief in the party, just like you would smack down one from outside the party. Period.

 

[Bad Paper]

(I've got an idea for one I've never gotten to use that's bound to make any group of PCs laugh their butts off if it were used- let me know if you wanna hear it.)

By all means, please tell.

As far as the rest of you, you guys (e.g. Len) are way too lawful. I mean, yeah, OK, party members aren't supposed to steal from each other, and my way of dealing with it is to pour all of my money into my spellbook, so I have nothing better to steal. In a way, I am daring him to steal the spellbook, because then I have no excuse to hold back, and will simply slay him outright.

But we are enjoying the intrigue. The rogue is actually a "fallen" monk. Hanging around with a cleric of Olidammara (no longer in the party) kinda wore on him after a while, and he's gone from lawful to neutral, and from monk to rogue. So now he likes being a sneaky thief.

One of my peeves in the game is to see poor roleplaying: polite barbarians, forthright rogues, cruel paladins...all these things should be exceptions, not rules. This is the first D&D my group has played in at least fifteen years, maybe closer to twenty. We're first-edition kids who are trying out this newfangled 3.5 business. We can't get enough of all the nuances, such as intraparty intrigue.

As for the Bestow Curse, I feel that it is within the power of the spell to impose a -30 penalty on one skill check against one opponent. We'll see if the DM agrees with me. The biggest flaw in my plan is that it's only a third-level cleric spell to remove the curse; the little bugger simply has to pay 150gp to any midlevel cleric to get it lifted. Of course, it's free for me to curse him, so I imagine paying 150gp every time will get tedious, and he will just eventually give up.

Or he'll steal my spellbook, and I will slay him. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[KarinsDad]

As far as the rest of you, you guys (e.g. Len) are way too lawful. I mean, yeah, OK, party members aren't supposed to steal from each other, and my way of dealing with it is to pour all of my money into my spellbook, so I have nothing better to steal. In a way, I am daring him to steal the spellbook, because then I have no excuse to hold back, and will simply slay him outright.

But we are enjoying the intrigue. The rogue is actually a "fallen" monk. Hanging around with a cleric of Olidammara (no longer in the party) kinda wore on him after a while, and he's gone from lawful to neutral, and from monk to rogue. So now he likes being a sneaky thief.

One of my peeves in the game is to see poor roleplaying: polite barbarians, forthright rogues, cruel paladins...all these things should be exceptions, not rules. This is the first D&D my group has played in at least fifteen years, maybe closer to twenty. We're first-edition kids who are trying out this newfangled 3.5 business. We can't get enough of all the nuances, such as intraparty intrigue.

The problem is that you are supporting him for roleplaying his character the way he wants to, but adjusting the roleplaying of your character BECAUSE it is a game.

Why?

Is your character SUPPOSED to be a wimp who lets others take advantage of him?

If there is a lot of intraparty intrigue, WHY is the party staying together?

Does that REALLY make roleplaying sense?


"One of my peeves in the game is to see poor roleplaying"

Then why are you doing it for YOUR character?

Researching a new version of Bestow Curse is probably NOT the best course of action for an intelligent Wizard (I assume your PC is intelligent). An intelligent wizard would either move on or kill the Rogue. But, sticking around someone who attempts to steal from you is similar to having a bad marriage, but not getting out of it. Is your PC a masochist?


1) Tell the Rogue to stop it or else.

2) If you really want to physically prevent it, tie down your belongings. Put your valuables into a small iron chest which is Arcane Locked. Have a blacksmith permanently attach a chain to it and then have it chained around your waist (under your clothes) and into your backpack. You want your stuff, you pull the chest out of the backpack and get your stuff. Make sure the chain is long enough for convenience.

3) If he attempts to bypass your lock box (which should be impossible without magic or a long time with tools), smoke his butt. Stealing is a felony in most societies. And in medieval societies, anyone who stole was outside the law and fair game for retribution (hence the term outlaw).

But, don't put up with this type of crap, just because "he is a fellow party member". That's poor roleplaying.


I once had a fellow party member who always tried to get the best magical items in the group, rarely compromised, and always wanted everything to go his way.

I was running an Illusionist/Thief who finally had enough of it. I Altered Self to look like a tavern wench, brought an Illusionary Script message up to him, and once he was unconscious, took all of his stuff and tied him upside down and naked in a tree. Since I did this totally through the DM, the player thought that some NPC had done it. I then sold all of his stuff. That was a profitable way to solve that problem.

But, treat fellow PCs as if they were merely well acquainted NPCs as opposed to your best buddies and you will work out this problem, one way or another.

 

[Scion]

rogue != thief
rogue != evil

a rogue could even be lawful good, have no stealth skills at all, and take offense at the very mention of anything nefarious.

Why is that bad roleplaying? The rogue is an incredibly versitile class, they can do a number of different things. They do not have to be a thief, they do not have to be evil. They can even have thief abilities and still not be evil, or even unlawful, isnt that wild?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Even if, in this case rogue = thief & evil, the problem with evil thieves is that nobody likes them, especially not their victims.

I hardly think that the other party members would be at all surprised or offended if they woke up one morning and the rogue had been reduced to a puddle of smoking goo.

"What happened?"
"Tried to steal my wand again."
"Okay. What's for breakfast?"

However, my advice to you is to remember that he probably has Evasion, and so to avoid using reflex-save spells. Try instead to nail him while he's sleeping with an Enervation or Bestow Curse (empowered and/or maximized, if possible) followed up by a Hold Person. Then, crush him so hard that his dead ancestors rise from their graves to come beg you for mercy.

In a normal situation, a wizard would leave a party with a person who stole from him. If the wizard were not so tolerant, he would kill the thief. Thieves are for killing, if you live in a world where problems are solved with swords and fireballs.

 

[Len]

As far as the rest of you, you guys (e.g. Len) are way too lawful.

Lawful? No, lawful would be reporting him to the authorities for jailing/hanging/whatever. Killing him and taking his stuff is the neutral/chaotic way of solving the problem.

But if you want to play your character as a wimp that puts up with this sort of nonsense, that's different. (And it could be fun, the way you've described the situation.) Come up with an entertaining and annoying curse like "farts loudly whenever he uses a skill". That should be worth a good penalty when picking pockets, moving silently and hiding, and just plain fun for all other skills.

Or he'll steal my spellbook, and I will slay him. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Oh, I'm sure he'll get around to that sooner or later. Just make sure you keep a few goodies memorized so you're ready for it.

rogue != thief
rogue != evil

Man, I've been trying for a year to convince my group of that. (Rich Burlew, you're not helping.) My rogue/Shadowdancer gets insulted whenever one of the other PCs calls him a "thief" out of habit. He was a bit of an assassin, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.