Better off not rolling (passive insight/perception)

[DLichen]

So how do you DMs out there run passive perception and insight? Many times people from my group would try to actively spot something and roll below a 10.

Do you just describe things as though they had rolled a 10 in that case or do you use the active search and treat it as though the PCs had a brainfart?

 

[Syrsuro]

If they would have noticed it with their passive perception, they would have already noticed it with their passive perception - its passive and thus automatic. So it must be something they couldn't see on a 10+skill anyway.

So I don't see the problem.

Can you describe a case where this would actually be an issue (a passive check is possible, but they are denied it and instead can choose to take an active check).

Carl

 

[DLichen]

So you're saying that a player's passive perception is always on even in the case of opposed rolls like bluff?

The other issue is that players tend to jump the gun or become paranoid about rolling perception, so would you just let passive override the active rolls of to search if they were lower?

 

[Syrsuro]

If it were a situation where they would get a passive skill check if they had not taken an active - Yes, I would treat any roll of less than 10 as a roll of 10.
Exception: If they rolled a 1, depending on the circumstances (and rolls of that nature are often rolled by the DM) I may give them conflicting or vague information. Depending on how evil I felt. (Essentially their heightened paranoia, etc. - demonstrated by the choice to take an active roll - has resulted in their seeing deception where none exists.)


If it were a situation where they would not normally get a passive skill check if they had not taken an active, the die roll stands as it falls.

Carl

 

[Bhikku]

I think that's the point of the passive senses. The DMG seems to indicate that for any situation where a check would be useful, there should be a somewhat lower DC to indicate that something is afoot. For example, in my first dungeon (i'm still getting my campaign up & running), there's a secret door connecting two rooms which is used with some frequency; passive perception of 15 or better will note that one section of wall is unobstructed by the furniture and clutter that dominates the rest of the room. If the players take the hint and start looking for a secret door, they'll need to roll a 20 to find it (and if they have specific ideas about what sorts of indicators the characters might look for, or how they'd test for triggers, they can even get a bonus to the roll).

Even if they fail to figure out how to open the door, or even decide that the whole thing was a red herring, they can take it into account later on - for example, an NPC will be attempting to flee through that same secret door. When the PCs follow him to an apparent dead end, if they check their map they may realize what he's done, and be able to circle back around and catch up to him.

Passive insight can be handled similarly - for example, when interrogating a prisoner, a good passive insight score could let the PCs know that the prisoner is holding something back, while a good roll might let them know whether he's trying to deceive them, hopes to plea-bargain, or just wants to stall long enough to buy his allies some time. If nobody makes that active roll, the players can draw their own conclusions, which may prove counterproductive if they're wrong.