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Beyond level 30?

Dragonblade

Adventurer
I really hope that WotC at least addresses what happens beyond level 30. It was completely ignored in SW Saga (which only goes up to 20) and that really bothered me. Not only that but action points in SW Saga require levelling up to replenish. Apparently 20th level characters just don't get to replenish them? Its ridiculous. (And yes, I know there are Jedi talents that can replenish action points. What about non-Jedi?)

Its like a set of train tracks that just end suddenly out in the middle of the desert.

Now 4e doesn't need to provide for unlimited levels beyond 30. We saw how that worked in the ELH, but I'd like it addressed somehow.

What is beyond 30? Perhaps a mechanic to still acquire skills, feats, and powers? Perhaps a retraining mechanic of some sort? You can give up existing skills in order to gain new ones? Feats? Powers?

I just don't like the notion that your PC just ends. Frozen forever at level 30 with no where else to go, no way to further evolve or change in any way. WotC please address this!! (And in SW Saga too!)
 

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Henry

Autoexreginated
Dragonblade said:
I really hope that WotC at least addresses what happens beyond level 30. It was completely ignored in SW Saga (which only goes up to 20) and that really bothered me. Not only that but action points in SW Saga require levelling up to replenish. Apparently 20th level characters just don't get to replenish them? Its ridiculous. (And yes, I know there are Jedi talents that can replenish action points. What about non-Jedi?)

I settled that with a house rule of my own -- any character that spends at least six months in downtime no adventuring has their force points restored to their full current level. This allows an "old timer" to come out of retirement, or for a long downtime for PCs between campaign arcs, and let the PCs start off at "full."

Even if there were no rules for level 31 and up, I would be statisfied. I know of very few people who run games past level 20 or so, and if level 30 was the mortal maximum, it would actually fit with older editions of D&D, where the max level was level 36, after which only ascension to godhood was a path of personal power.
 


Doug McCrae

Legend
It's an interesting question. BECMI is the only edition of D&D ever to have a proper end point. After level 36, you become an Immortal aka a god.

A level 1 god. :)
 


Dragonblade

Adventurer
Henry said:
Even if there were no rules for level 31 and up, I would be statisfied. I know of very few people who run games past level 20 or so, and if level 30 was the mortal maximum, it would actually fit with older editions of D&D, where the max level was level 36, after which only ascension to godhood was a path of personal power.

I'm ok with 30 being the maximum level. I just want a provision for your character to evolve or be able to change in some way. Even a retraining mechanic of some sort would be cool.
 



Flynn

First Post
I would hope that action points shift from "per level" to "per session", to avoid the issues that people have with level capping. In my own games, I use "per session" and it works out very well. (Oh, and with "per session", I don't allow them to save up leftover action points from session to session.)

With Regards,
Flynn
 

Patlin

Explorer
Flynn said:
I would hope that action points shift from "per level" to "per session", to avoid the issues that people have with level capping. In my own games, I use "per session" and it works out very well. (Oh, and with "per session", I don't allow them to save up leftover action points from session to session.)

With Regards,
Flynn

Would it matter if a session was 2,4,6 or 8 hours? The 2 hour group would be able to use the points a lot more often than the 8 hour group!
 

Toryx

First Post
I'm not sure I'd ever want to play a level higher than 20 or so. I've only gotten to 20 once before, and honestly that's enough. There's such a thing as beating a dead horse. And there are countless other characters to create and develop.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I would love an immortals sourcebook for advancement beyond 30. It's time for D&D to tackle this subject again.
yes, as said before an "immortal" sourcebook that explain how to become demi-god or other kind of ultrapowerful characters (demon-lord, super-lich, mega-vampires and so on) and a few mechanics to get going

I would like and enjoy it

maybe such character woul have some sort of mega-damage rule (say a x10 multiplier of damage and hp), avatar rules (only one?) and so on
 

drothgery

First Post
Flynn said:
I would hope that action points shift from "per level" to "per session", to avoid the issues that people have with level capping.

The problem with that is that sessions can vary wildly, both among groups (playing time per session can range from ~3 hours out of ~4 on the clock in an evening -- which is what I do, to all-day on a weekend, to the occasional crazy 12+ hour things that sometimes happen to college kids, to PBP games which don't have any formal 'sessions' at all) and within groups (because a combat-heavy session is going to use more action points than a combat-light one, almost inevitably). So I'm not sure how you build mechanics for it.
 

Scribble

First Post
Chalk me up as someone who would rather see the "epic level handbook" for the new edition be an "immortals handbook..."

It always just made more sense to me that an ultra high level character would seek to achieve divinity.
 

Dragonblade said:
Not only that but action points in SW Saga require levelling up to replenish. Apparently 20th level characters just don't get to replenish them? Its ridiculous.

This is better handled by simple house-rules that better fits your playing style than by instructions from on high.

DM: "Okay you 20th level dudes, we've finished this arc of the story. Everybody gets back 5 (or 10 or 2 or all or whatever, pick a number that fits your game) Force/Action points. Up to your normal level max."

It doesn't seem that hard to impliment, and quite frankly I want WotC to spend their time ironing out bugs in the levels I will play at rather than worrying about hand-holding epic characters.
 

Flynn

First Post
Patlin said:
Would it matter if a session was 2,4,6 or 8 hours? The 2 hour group would be able to use the points a lot more often than the 8 hour group!

I think that, however long your sessions are, going with a "per session" approach to action points is better than "per level" because it addresses the issues of the "per level" approach, unless your sessions are so long that you gain more than one level in a single session.

I don't think they have to be balanced between different campaigns (because we all use a different gaming style and game under different conditions, so campaigns will always be different from one another), but will work out consistently within your gaming experience for the individual campaign if the sessions are consistently of the same length. For those that have concerns, though, consider refreshing your action points every four hours, if your sessions are longer than that on the average.

Hope This Helps,
Flynn
 

Michele Carter

First Post
Dragonblade said:
I'm ok with 30 being the maximum level. I just want a provision for your character to evolve or be able to change in some way. Even a retraining mechanic of some sort would be cool.

You know what I really like? Coming to these boards and finding a request for a game mechanic...that we've already addressed.

:D
 


KoshPWNZYou

First Post
Of course, the name 'Warlord' was already settled, but that didn't stop us from debating it for 3 weeks. So, everyone, proceed! ;)

A lot depends on how much time progresses in the game world between level gains. If you're playing in an epic campaign where years are spanned in the time you pick up a few levels, by the time you reach the mid 20's you're sort of a Conan-in-his-later-years. You can still bring it, and your skills are still getting sharper, but age is starting to wear on your physical attributes. By the time you hit 30, it's time to settle into your keep/tower and train/finance other adventurers. That's the feel of adventuring that I like.

But then I've always liked demigod mechanics and the 'rubbing elbows with the gods' style too. If that's what they've decided, I'll sign for it.
 


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