Big Dungeons - An unrequited love?

[Glyfair]

I think very large dungeons tend to limit player choices. Barring teleport, if your PCs are in a HUGE dungeon, they are pretty much stuck there. If they get bored, leaving to do something else is hardly an option.

Traditionally, you either cleared a level and could go through it with little worries next time back, or else you found the "short cut" around levels. If you found the short cut earlier than you were prepared for, then you often died because of the old "level of dungeon=level of challenge" paradigm that was common.

 

[trancejeremy]

Wow. Uh, no. Not designed to play non-stop. You're just plain wrong there.

Yes it was. The entrance closes after they enter and no one can teleport or use magic to get out. There is an exit in the middle that PCs can get it (which I alluded to), but they need to fly up a couple miles (? that what it says) to leave, so even that isn't easy.

It also says that Wizards get hosed, because they can't get new spells (since they are stuck in a dungeon) and that non-dungeon skills are useless, so players shouldn't take them. (page 12)

Yes, you can break it up into smaller sections/separate dungeons, but that's not what the intention was. Otherwise they would have added an entrance/exit in each section, or allow teleporting out. And wouldn't have changed the XP rules.

Furthermore, the dungeon isn't built like there is free access in/out. The thing was supposed to be a prison. Most of the inhabitants can't break out because the exit is guarded by some really tough stuff (sorta, supposed to be a Titan), so they just stayed and took over their section. Once you break it up into separate dungeons, this no longer really makes sense.




Anyway, as to where to get it, I got mine on ebay. At the time, there was like 20 of them on there, and I got one for $30. This was around the time AEG laid off a bunch of employees, so I wonder if some of them were paid in product and dumped them on ebay or to local stores?

 

[Turjan]

As to the original question, no. Maybe, I'm not the right D&D fan, but I'm not very fond of big dungeons, and I never was, thus no love involved here. After a certain amount of time/levels I always lose interest. As a DM I like dungeons because they are an easy opportunity to set up a railr... , err, a consistent storyline, but even in a game I generally don't like places that are cut off from sunlight, as funny as it may sound .

 

[Nuclear Platypus]

Amazon's not the best at shipping game books, honestly, and it looks like Buy.com is out. However, I know there's several retailers offering hefty discounts for WLD...would any posters here care to share some links?

Barring bidding wars and sniping bidders, eBay has 14 listings (6 auctions, 8 stores). The closest one to ending is about 11 hours away at 1030 am CST and runs for about $60 ($50 + 10 S&H). There's also one even cheaper (currently $23) but at 8 days, I can see the price going up near the end.

 

[Jim Hague]

Yes it was. The entrance closes after they enter and no one can teleport or use magic to get out. There is an exit in the middle that PCs can get it (which I alluded to), but they need to fly up a couple miles (? that what it says) to leave, so even that isn't easy.

It also says that Wizards get hosed, because they can't get new spells (since they are stuck in a dungeon) and that non-dungeon skills are useless, so players shouldn't take them. (page 12)

Yes, you can break it up into smaller sections/separate dungeons, but that's not what the intention was. Otherwise they would have added an entrance/exit in each section, or allow teleporting out. And wouldn't have changed the XP rules.

Furthermore, the dungeon isn't built like there is free access in/out. The thing was supposed to be a prison. Most of the inhabitants can't break out because the exit is guarded by some really tough stuff (sorta, supposed to be a Titan), so they just stayed and took over their section. Once you break it up into separate dungeons, this no longer really makes sense.




Anyway, as to where to get it, I got mine on ebay. At the time, there was like 20 of them on there, and I got one for $30. This was around the time AEG laid off a bunch of employees, so I wonder if some of them were paid in product and dumped them on ebay or to local stores?

Let me repeat for you from a position of knowing, instead of assuming on the boards here, with my writer's guidelines handy:

No. You're wrong. You can get out via the elven garrison or via some means the GM provides, and the guidelines given are just that - guidelines. The WLD was designed to be modular. Thanks for buying, thanks for playing, but please don't misrepresent the product.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

$120 plus 15% sales tax is a whopper to swallow at the FLGS. They got in exactly one copy and finally managed to sell it 3 months later. They'll only do a special order for it now and don't mind me making the occasional online purchase (I get 95% of my gaming stuff from them after all). I've never used buy.com and the sloooooooow shipping of amazaon.ca kind of irked me last time (3 weeks to travel 200km? HUH?).

Really? My Amazon.ca stuff is usually here within 2 days if it's in stock. And I live about 500km away from them. Maybe your stuff got accidentally thrown on the wrong truck.

Also, I don't think I ever noticed you're in London. I grew up there. What's the FLGS there these days?

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Yes it was. The entrance closes after they enter and no one can teleport or use magic to get out. There is an exit in the middle that PCs can get it (which I alluded to), but they need to fly up a couple miles (? that what it says) to leave, so even that isn't easy.

Jim Pinto (the fellow whose name is on the front cover of the WLD) has said on the WLD spoiler thread, that the designers did not honestly expect people to try to go through the WLD straight through.
He was quickly proven wrong on that one.

 

[Turjan]

Let me repeat for you from a position of knowing, instead of assuming on the boards here, with my writer's guidelines handy:

No. You're wrong. You can get out via the elven garrison or via some means the GM provides, and the guidelines given are just that - guidelines. The WLD was designed to be modular. Thanks for buying, thanks for playing, but please don't misrepresent the product.

Then we have the case that the product manages the misrepresenting all on its own .

This is an old discussion. If the designers of the WLD meant the dungeon to be modular, they succeeded marvellously in convincing their customers from the opposite .

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Really? My Amazon.ca stuff is usually here within 2 days if it's in stock. And I live about 500km away from them. Maybe your stuff got accidentally thrown on the wrong truck.

Also, I don't think I ever noticed you're in London. I grew up there. What's the FLGS there these days?

I agree I probably just got a bad day at the warehouse but it still put me off ordering from them.

The main gaming shop in London (Ontario that is), imo, is LA Mood's on Richmond. I like the staff, they order stuff and I get it promptly and they don't lie to me about realistic due dates. There are two others in town that I would frequent if they didn't have 2 of the following
1) Cat Piss Men
2) Crazy Owner
3) WotC only selection
One other store (the Comic Book Collector on Dundas St E) has a good selection of both books and WotC Miniatures. Good prices too. I prefer LA Mood's for the service and board game selection (second to none!).

 

[Glyfair]

Then we have the case that the product manages the misrepresenting all on its own .

This is an old discussion. If the designers of the WLD meant the dungeon to be modular, they succeeded marvellously in convincing their customers from the opposite .

I was curious about it when it came out and tried to read every single review of it. Almost every review I read listed a positive trait being that it was very modular and could be run in bits and pieces.

I'll buy that they "succeeded marvellously in convincing some of their customers from the opposite" but not that all of their customers believed the opposite.