Binder house rules

[Brian Gibbons]

I'm about to use the Binder class from Tome of Magic in a new campaign I'm running, and I'm curious as to what common house rules are out there for this class.

My reading of the class leads me to two opinions: The power-jump in gaining the ability to bind multiple vestiges needs to be made more gradual, and the difficulty to swap out vestiges decreases the power of the class a bit too much.

I would appreciate if anyone with actual experience with a Binder in play could comment as to whether this is actually the case.

The house rules I am currently considering are:

- A binder may expel a vestige at any time. On a good pact, expelling a vestige is a full-round action. On a bad pact, expelling a vestige requires a five-minute contest of wills, and the binder continues to bear the sign and influence of the vestige for the remainder of the 24-hour period. A vestige will not respond to a summons if you have expelled that vestige within the last 24 hours. A binder may conduct a number of binding ceremonies each day equal to her effective binding level (though, of course, may not have more vestiges bound at any one time than listed in the class table).

- The maximum level vestige a binder may bind, as well as the number of vestiges a binder may have bound to her at any one time are as indicated in the table below, in the column under 'Variant':

(In the following table, X/Y indicates that the binder can bind a vestige of level X and one of level Y, at the same time. Core = The core Binder; Core (IB) = The core Binder with the Improved Binding feat; Variant = The Binder under the house rule I'm considering. The first two columns are included for comparison purposes.)

Lvl  Core           Core (IB)      Variant
 1:   1              2              1
 2:   1              2              1
 3:   2              3              2
 4:   2              3              2/1
 5:   3              4              3/1
 6:   3              4              3/2
 7:   4              4              4/2
 8:   4/4            5/5            4/3
 9:   4/4            5/5            4/3/1
10:   5/5            6/6            5/3/1
11:   5/5            6/6            5/4/2
12:   6/6            6/6            6/4/2
13:   6/6            7/7            6/5/3
14:   6/6/6          7/7/6          6/5/3/1
15:   7/7/6          8/8/7          7/5/3/1
16:   7/7/6          8/8/7          7/6/4/2
17:   8/8/7          8/8/7          8/6/4/2
18:   8/8/7          8/8/7          8/6/5/3
19:   8/8/7          8/8/7          8/7/6/5
20:   8/8/7/7        8/8/7/7        8/8/7/7

To balance the earlier ability to bind multiple vestiges, I would remove the Improved Binding feat and the bonus feat granted at 4th level. (Essentially, for balance purposes, this means you can compare a core Binder using their bonus feat for Improved Binding with this variant. Inasmuch as IB appears to be a given for most Binder builds, that seems appropriate.)

Thoughts?

 

[MarauderX]

Currently I am DMing a campaign with a 2nd level Dwarf binder. After reading the binder rules twice and dwelling on it, I allowed the class into the campaign without any changes.

I like the idea of dismissing a vestige whenever you wish. I would vy for an easy mechanic of a Will save or another Binding check (Unbinding Check?) to get rid of a bad bind.

I don't like the variant table. It allows more bound vestiges more quickly, which can be complimented with the character's own strengths & items to create something that is more than adequately powerful for the level. Sure the power creep seems low, but with 2 vestiges at 4th instead of 8th and 3 vestiges at 9th level instead of 14th I would foresee a problem in magnified power. Binding is about preparing with options. Though I understand why you would want to do it, even the 2nd level binder has a lot of options, and a 4th level binder would have a field day when getting two of them.

 

[Nifft]

From what I've seen (briefly playing an Anima Mage and making a lot of Binder-based NPCs as a DM), the ToM Binder is on the weak side. I very much agree that he needs a better mechanic to swap out Vestiges.

The magic item solution ("vestige phylactery") is wonky, because it means low-level guys have no swap option, while high-level guys can have every Vestige available all the time. I agree it should be made a class ability, and the magic item should disappear.

I like your use of the initial binding check to determine how easy it is to rid yourself of the Vestige. That's good stuff.

- - -

As to the quicker multi-binding, I'm not sure that it should be combined with the easier dismissal / re-binding. That may be too strong, and given the flexibility of re-binding, not necessary.

I'll look at this more if I have time.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Brian Gibbons]

I like the idea of dismissing a vestige whenever you wish. I would vy for an easy mechanic of a Will save or another Binding check (Unbinding Check?) to get rid of a bad bind.

I contemplated that, but quickly realized that wouldn't have a point: this is the sort of thing that's going to be taken care of when time isn't of the essence, which means that unless you're only going to give a limited number of opportunities to make the check or penalties on failure, adding a check just means that we sit there while the player has to roll dice until they make it.

Plus, I'm using the Binder alongside the classes from Book of Nine Swords, which has a "swap out your maneuvers in a five-minute ritual" system, so it works well from a consistency viewpoint.

 

[Nifft]

The ToB:Bo9S comparison is a very good one. The Martial Adepts can swap out their readied maneuvers with 5 minutes of free time, but they can only swap them for maneuvers they know -- and they only know a very small subset of all maneuvers.

So, allowing a Binder to swap his Vestiges freely (with 5 minutes of free time) would be balanced if he were limited to a subset of all Vestiges.

I propose that the Binder starts out "knowing" two Vestiges, and "learns" one additional Vestige every Binder level. (NOT every effective binder level. This is a class feature.)

Also, add a feat "Vestigial Lore" which grants knowledge of two Vestiges, so those who want to use PrCs can still learn new Vestiges.

Cheers, -- N

 

[maggot]

I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to say, Awesome Thread Title.