bite/claw/claw/wing/wing/tail in 6 seconds??

[Rashak Mani]

He can do these only as a full round attack... and the attack bonus of his non-bite attacks are all at -5 (not much difference I know).

Overall I agree with you that its a little "strange".. I would make those area distinctions... tail only backwards... wings forward or sideways, etc...

 

[JacktheRabbit]

You are right but I consider that to be one of the most ignorant design aspects in all of 3E. They did such a good job on everything else yet facing does not exist in 6 second combat rounds.

Give me a break.

I thought there was NO facing in the core rules...?

 

[mythusmage]

Dragon Attacks

Try limiting the wing and tail attacks to special occasions. Matter of fact, I would make wing attacks a sort of accidental thing, something that occurs when the wings are beating for one reason or another. Or when the dragon is mantling over something he is trying to protect. The tail should be reserved for use against opponents behind or to the side of the dragons.

With the claws, allow multiple attacks based on BAB. If the base bonus is +13, the dragon would get additional attacks at +8 and +3. This is with both claws, BTW. Where the bite is concerned, the dragon can either choose to bite and release, or bite and hold. If the latter, on a successful hit the dragon has a solid hold on the target and can now do automatic damage equal to his normal bite damage.

All this would make the dragon a more dangerous combatant, which is as it should be.

 

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Give me a break.

Jeez...sorry...

 

[Wolf72]

monsters not getting multiple attacks: I believe that monsters using natural weapons do not get iterive attacks.

They get iterive attacks if their BAB is high enough and they have a weapon. Such as most giants.

 

[SableWyvern]

Malcor, you've just awakened me to a rather significant inconsistency in the rules.

Quadripeds - with their oblong dimensions - have facings by default. At the least, one end must be either the front or the back, and likewise sides must be sides.

If the miniature/listed dimensions are not an accurate representation of the creature's location in a combat round, this is irrelevant. Yet the fact that WotC has specifically referred to a dragon's tail sweep as being centred on its rear indicates that even they have fallen into the trap of using visual appearance to define facing - in direct contravention of the rules.

Should all creatures technically have a perfect square as their dimensions? Or should creatures without perfect squares as their dimensions have facings?

 

[cyrnus]

You are right but I consider that to be one of the most ignorant design aspects in all of 3E. They did such a good job on everything else yet facing does not exist in 6 second combat rounds.

Give me a break.

You can eaisily turn to attack within 6 seconds. After all my little cousin can turn a full 360 degrees at least 10 times in 6 seconds. I'm not sure that all of you realise just how long 6 seconds is. Go and watch FotR again but this time when they are in a battle scene start counting your Mississippies and make note of how much happens before you get to 6 each time.

As for the dragon attack picture this:
The dragon spins hitting you with first his left wing then his tail followed by his right wing being careful that each hit knocks you into position for the next. Just as he is facing you once more he swipes at you with one claw sending you flying into the air and catches you with the other claw squeezing tightly. Just when you think it can't get any worse his head comes rushing towards you and bites your head off.

I can see all that hapening and the dragon still having time to position himself for his next attack. Maybe replacing one of his claw attacks by using your deheaded corpse as a projectile weapon.

 

[7thlvlDM]

Good lord, I've just witnessed a dragon perform whirlwind. Thanks Cyrnus, I'll never forget it. I don't think the knocking into position for the next attack is allowed unless the dragon is bullrushing.

I can see how a fighter with Great Cleave or Whirlwind can hit so many targets. The feats make it sound like the warrior is slicing through several opponents with one swing. But to actually bite something and let go to attack it 5 more times in 6 seconds is insane.

-7thlvlDM
...trying to visuallize a dragon pouncing on an orc like my cat Tankle.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Should all creatures technically have a perfect square as their dimensions?

If we're going to do it properly, they should all have perfect circles...

-Hyp.

 

[SableWyvern]

If we're going to do it properly, they should all have perfect circles...

-Hyp.

Which, BTW, would be as easy as converting from square grids to hexes.