BP is still a comic adaption and I find any it rather questionable to use Wakanda as some sort of "what would have been without colonialism" role model.
Black Panther Trailer
BP is still a comic adaption and I find any it rather questionable to use Wakanda as some sort of "what would have been without colonialism" role model.
Gammadoodler
Hero
Perhaps I’m missing the connective thought? Is there a reason that “comic adaptation and “what would have been without colonialism” role model should be exclusive to each other or even “questionable”?
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
the reactions coming out of the Black Panther screenings in Africa itself have tended to be positive, with the movie making big money in both East, West and South Africa. People are positive about the emphasis on 'hi-tech' modern Africa rather than the crisis and poverty and the fact that a big budget superhero now exists that talks with an African accent (almost), wears kente cloth and looks 'African'. (as a Polynesian I saw the same reaction to Disneys Moana, such that even my 16 year old neice bought a Moana blanket).
Nonetheless that ignores the fact that Wakanda survived and flourished due to being built on 10000 tonnes of Vibranium - thats the fictional part which means that it lackls relevance to the real world and we will never know what uncolonised Uganda might have been like sans Vibranium.
(Theres also criticisms of Ross' role as CIA stooge and the whole Killmonger was the true hero angle, but that gets into politics we don't want)
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Imaro
Legend
Yes because that so isn't what sci-fi, fantasy and comic book fiction has been exploring forever (mainly what if's...)... So what exactly would be an entertaining and enjoyable medium where this fictitious scenario could be explored?
Imaro
Legend
I don't think just because it uses a fictional catalyst for the successful rejection of colonialism means the movie lacks real world relevance (though I agree we can never know what an Uganda that was never colonized would actually be like). Maybe I'm reading your statement wrong but you seem to be saying no fiction can have relevance to the real world because it has fictitious elements/events. If that is the premise I disagree fictional stories like myths, legends, etc. have always had relevance to the real world... even though we know they aren't documentaries.
Gammadoodler
Hero
Why exactly do you think colonization happened? Do you think that Europeans showed up in Africa (or North and South America, or Asia) with guns and gunpowder in order to secure a pretty travel destination? Vibranium is a very reasonable analogue for silk, diamonds, gold, cotton, etc. The only difference, such as it is, is that, where these other materials are primarily valuable as trade goods, vibranium has physical properties relevant to the development of technology akin to magic.
You don’t think that it is at least plausible to imagine a world where an African nation’s native population had an opportunity to profit on their natural resources?
You don’t think that it is at least plausible to imagine a world where an African nation’s native population had an opportunity to profit on their natural resources?
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And what scenario gets explored exactly?
"What if Africa wasnt colonized" or "What if there was a high technological african kingdom with the king wearing a panther suit and punching bad guys"?
When they created BP they started with the result, a panther themed superhero, and added some fantasy elements as origin. You can't simply turn this around and use it as allegory of what could have been without colonialism as the creators never asked that question.
This comic book origin is also a major disconnect in the movie. On one hand Wakanda is very advanced, on the other it is very archaic because some comic logic had to be kept.
Imaro
Legend
Why is it an either or proposition?
EDIT: The Matrix was both an exploration of the themes of Gnosticism and a movie where the slickly dressed heroes kick and punch bad guys... wasn't it?
How do you know this? More importantly, even assuming your knowledge of the creation process for the Black Panther and Wakanda are correct... why couldn't the original creation evolve into an exploration of that theme as Wakanda became more fleshed out and more prominent in the comics?
Archaic in what way... and please don't confuse cultural differences for something being archaic...
Because starting with the desired result first and then going backwards to justify that result is completely unscientific and any explorasion made on this premise is flawed. And I doubt that anyone at Marvel has enough experience as a historian to even begin to make an informed exploration of alternate history. Especially as the comics are still intended as light entertainment with mass market appeal so they go with the rule of cool and whatever their marketing department things the target demographic likes instead of doing actual historic evaluations.
Archaic as in their head of state is chosen by single combat.
Gammadoodler
Hero
This seems like an awfully reductive approach to exploration. To me:
- what conditions might form an African superhero, and
- what is one possible result of uncolonized Africa
are not barred from similar conclusions in that they are both fundamentally speculative in nature.
- what conditions might form an African superhero, and
- what is one possible result of uncolonized Africa
are not barred from similar conclusions in that they are both fundamentally speculative in nature.
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