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Black Panther Trailer

Definitely. It's also something the MCU has completely and utter failed at multiple times. Iron Man 3 comes to mind as the worst example. Why weren't more heroes able to help Tony? And why was the House Party Protocol never used again/before? Because it's an Iron Man movie. Civil War also failed in the other direction; it was supposed to be a Captain America movie but was really just Avengers without a couple expensive stars.

BP got this one right in a lot of ways.
I never get the “why didn’t Tony/ Cap/ Thor call for help?” question. Why would they? For the same reason most action heroes don’t just call in all the cops and a multitude of back-up. Because it’s personal. Because they think they can handle it alone. That’s just admitting they can’t do the job. Or because they don’t have the five hours it will take them to arrive.
Or because their friends are busy. I don’t think we need a scene where fugitive Captain American calls Iron Man only to find he’s busy on his own case.

It’s the same reason the police don’t call and wait for SWAT and the FBI for every call.
Or why every Marvel comic isn’t just Avengers.

Why wasn’t House Party used again? It was at the start of Age of Ultron with the Iron Legion. That and his suits were blown up. He only had a few left.
 

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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Civil War also introduced the Sakovia Accords which are especially problematic. Not in the movies but the TV series. Especially now as most of the Defenders are known superheroes and should have been, according to the Accords, already have been picked up.

not really, Shield showed up in Sokovia too and there are back references from the TV shows.

previous to the Defenders show all four members were under the radar enough not to come to the attention of the Authorities. both ex-convict Luke and Jessica Jones were actively trying to avoid publicity (then Luke was in jail) and DD though active could pass as just an average vigilante martial artist (not Super) and now he's also presumed dead.

The upcoming season(s) get a bit more difficult to explain away, but perhaps they will play with it, the trailers for JJ has her being asked if she knows Captain America, which is a nice nod
 

Derren

Hero
not really, Shield showed up in Sokovia too and there are back references from the TV shows.

previous to the Defenders show all four members were under the radar enough not to come to the attention of the Authorities. both ex-convict Luke and Jessica Jones were actively trying to avoid publicity (then Luke was in jail) and DD though active could pass as just an average vigilante martial artist (not Super) and now he's also presumed dead.

The upcoming season(s) get a bit more difficult to explain away, but perhaps they will play with it, the trailers for JJ has her being asked if she knows Captain America, which is a nice nod

Already in Defenders both Luke and JJ were known superheroes. Lukes invulnerability was televised on TV and sparked a debate about purchasing new weapons for the pomice. I hardly call that under the radar.
And the events around JJ and the Purple Man were also known in Defenders and JJ openly used her powers which didnt surprise anyone (the scene with the towed car).
There is really no explanation why they were not approached by that point considering how big of a deal the Accords are supposed to be.
 


Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
I liked the movie for the setting and the characters, even though structurally, it seems to follow relatively predictable patterns and doesn't really offer much in the way of surprising developments.

the reactions coming out of the Black Panther screenings in Africa itself have tended to be positive, with the movie making big money in both East, West and South Africa. People are positive about the emphasis on 'hi-tech' modern Africa rather than the crisis and poverty and the fact that a big budget superhero now exists that talks with an African accent (almost), wears kente cloth and looks 'African'. (as a Polynesian I saw the same reaction to Disneys Moana, such that even my 16 year old neice bought a Moana blanket).

Nonetheless that ignores the fact that Wakanda survived and flourished due to being built on 10000 tonnes of Vibranium - thats the fictional part which means that it lackls relevance to the real world and we will never know what uncolonised Uganda might have been like sans Vibranium.
It seems to me that is the biggest flaw - there is no real Wakanda that's going to help the Afro-Americans or the African people rise from the damage colonism and slavery did to them. They still somehow have to figure out a way out of this without superpowers or supertechnology. It offers no real solutions. Maybe, however, it offers at least an Utopia one could strive for?
 

ccs

40th lv DM
I never get the “why didn’t Tony/ Cap/ Thor call for help?” question. Why would they? For the same reason most action heroes don’t just call in all the cops and a multitude of back-up. Because it’s personal. Because they think they can handle it alone. That’s just admitting they can’t do the job. Or because they don’t have the five hours it will take them to arrive.
Or because their friends are busy. I don’t think we need a scene where fugitive Captain American calls Iron Man only to find he’s busy on his own case.

It’s the same reason the police don’t call and wait for SWAT and the FBI for every call.
Or why every Marvel comic isn’t just Avengers.

Why wasn’t House Party used again? It was at the start of Age of Ultron with the Iron Legion. That and his suits were blown up. He only had a few left.

Exactly. The comics these movies stem from have been operating for 80-some years with vast #s of concurrent solo adventures/chapters where only the title heroes own supporting cast show up/get referenced.
 


Imaro

Adventurer
It seems to me that is the biggest flaw - there is no real Wakanda that's going to help the Afro-Americans or the African people rise from the damage colonism and slavery did to them. They still somehow have to figure out a way out of this without superpowers or supertechnology. It offers no real solutions. Maybe, however, it offers at least an Utopia one could strive for?

Ok serious question... why do you think Afro-Americans and African people are looking to this movie as some kind of blueprint to repair/fix the damage of colonism and slavery? Honestly it's more like it inspires African Americans and Africans because it's a representation of them not rooted in colonism, violent stereotypes and slavery... which, along with samboish comedy, seems to be the majority of representation of black and African people in mass media.

EDIT: Think of it in the same way that Captain America represents, and calls to an idealistic America that never really was... but no one is asking why white America thinks they can fix America by using the Cap movies as a blueprint...

EDIT 2: Just to be clear I'm not trying to single you out since a few posters have made assertions along these lines and I'm not understanding why this is assumed?
 
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Kaodi

Adventurer
I wonder if the way in which Wakanda is the most "utopian" is not that they managed all of this by themselves but that they managed it without any discernible environmental impact. An Africa without colonialism would have all of the regular problems of countries that Wakanda seems to lack (in the movie): classism, the after effects of industrialization, and so on. Cultures for which large scale mining was foreign would still have gone through great upheaval in order to be able to extra their own mineral wealth; technology and methods to do it would still have had to be imported from elsewhere.
 

I never get the “why didn’t Tony/ Cap/ Thor call for help?” question. ...

Well, if you never understood it before I'm probably not going to be the one to change your mind. I can, however, point out that it's a well documented problem. Even within the MCU. Especially within the MCU. Heck, even the writers admit that it's a problem. That's why there are so many in-universe "justifications" for it noted on that page. Unfortunately, most of those justifications start off thinner than a kleenex, and only get worse as Sequel Escalation ramps things up over time.

Why I brought it up here, though, is that I honestly think your opinion is right for Black Panther. In the context of this movie, it actually makes sense, and I think that deserves a lot of credit. It required a combination of good story writing, good plot design, good character creation, knowledge of the universe, and a lot of restraint to pull it off.
 

Derren

Hero
Hey, speaking of not answering.... You still haven't told me wich Captain America movies I should watch if I want to see a Superhero movie.

Civil War because of everyone else besides Cap.
Why do you think I have used Captain America as comparison to Black Panther? Because he is the least "super" of the superheroes in the MCU (Not counting people without any official superpower and Bucky). But apart from the short airport fight the Captain America movies aren't superhero movies either. Although at least the existence of superpowers is important for the plot in Civil War.

Cap suffers from the same problem as BP that his superpower is something any action hero has. Even Falcon is more super than he in Cap2. The only advantage Cap has over BP is his shield which he can use to do crazy stuff no one else can (even if it is because no one else has a shield in the first place).
But what makes BP different from non-super heroes? Why is BP a superhero but Hawkeye isn't? Heck, why isn't Okoye also a superhero considering that she does nearly as crazy stunts as Black Panther himself? Or lets turn that around. Why is Okoye no superhero but BP is?
 
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Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
Ok serious question... why do you think Afro-Americans and African people are looking to this movie as some kind of blueprint to repair/fix the damage of colonism and slavery?
I don't know what other people think.
But it was notable to me that the movie made a point to say that people of African Descent have faced injustice and hardships in the entire world (somethnig that applies in-universe as in reality) and the Black Panther realizing that he has Wakanda has the ability to change it, because it's super-rich and super-advanced, it just needs to finally commit to it.
But Wakanda or a country like it doesn't really exist, so the movie shows us there is a problem that we need to deal with, but the solution it has in its own fiction isn't applicable to the real world.

Honestly it's more like it inspires African Americans and Africans because it's a representation of them not rooted in colonism, violent stereotypes and slavery... which, along with samboish comedy, seems to be the majority of representation of black and African people in mass media.
And maybe that is enough already? I think that alone might already a good accomplishment for a movie.

EDIT: Think of it in the same way that Captain America represents, and calls to an idealistic America that never really was... but no one is asking why white America thinks they can fix America by using the Cap movies as a blueprint...
I think Cap movies don't really seem to apply in the same manner, because they handle the issues they talk about differently (and usually far more indirectly refer to real world issues. The Sokovian Accords or HYDRA undermining SHIELD might stand in for something in our real world, but in universe-it's a superhero world problem that we don't have. Of course, Civil War did't really have a solution to its own problem - it's still unresolved, it seems.)
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I think Cap movies don't really seem to apply in the same manner, because they handle the issues they talk about differently (and usually far more indirectly refer to real world issues. The Sokovian Accords or HYDRA undermining SHIELD might stand in for something in our real world, but in universe-it's a superhero world problem that we don't have. Of course, Civil War did't really have a solution to its own problem - it's still unresolved, it seems.)


Colonel Chester Phillips "General Patton has said that wars are fought with weapons but are won by men. Our goal is to create the greatest army in history. But every army begins with one man. He will be the first in a new breed of super-soldier. We are going to win this war because we have the best men. And they, personally, will escort Adolf Hitler to the gates of Hell."​
(Quote from Captain AMerica The First Avenger)​

Captain America is "just a skinny kid from Brooklyn" who gets beaten up by bullies but who is chosen to be the One Man who best serves America and is thus given great power beceause he deserves it. (contrast that to Killmonger as the kid from Oakland unjustly denied his heritage and reduced to beleiving in fairytales)

Thats the ideal being presented in Captain America, he represents the image of the good American, a soldier who is the One Man amongst Men, who respects people and stands up for what is right and good in the world. In WW2 those are the old time values of America that helped them win the war and become Great (tm)

The next two movies speak to the loss of those old values but Captain America is still the One Man who can stand up against the corruption of American Greatness seen in the Hydra infiltration of SHIELD and the 'unethical' Sokovia accords.
Here too Cap is contrasted with Tony Stark who is the capitalist, war profiteer (reformed) who proves that the private sector is better than Government (and the incompetent military) but who nonetheless has now aligned himself with 'big government' to trample your Rights (contrast here that TChalla as King of Wakanda is Big Government, but in the Wakandan utopia he is benevolent dictator)

The Captain America arc has had more time to gain more nuance in his story than the relatively simple Black Panther and the fact that there are more White Superheroes allows White society to be better explored via contrasting characters rather than via the allegorical depictions of Protagonist v Antagonist seen in Black Panther
 
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Ryujin

Adventurer
I have absolutely zero complaints about this movie. Wakanda was as I imagined a nation born in the Cradle of Humanity and which never suffered from a Dark age, colonialism, nor slavery would look. It looked like I imagined when I was reading the comics as a child. The more nuanced villain worked. The comedic notes worked. I'd call this one of Marvel's best movies.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Two things occur to me, on the day of Chadwick Boseman's passing:

1) This man made one Marvel movie, got a diagnosis of stage III cancer, and then went on to star in his own Marvel movie, and appear in two others, and do several other projects... all while battling that cancer. That is incredibly badass.

2) Talk of Black Panther 2 has probably been a polite fiction to protect Mr. Boseman's privacy. While perhaps contractual... it is still incredibly gracious and more than I'd expect from a major corporation.
 
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Parmandur

Legend
Two things occur to me, on the day of Chadwick Boseman's passing:

1) This man made one Marvel movie, got a diagnosis of stage III cancer, and then went on to star in his own Marvel movie, and appear in two others... all while battling that cancer. That is incredibly badass.

2) Talk of Black Panther 2 has probably been a polite fiction to protect Mr. Boseman's privacy. While perhaps contractual... it is still incredibly gracious and more than I'd expect from a major corporation.

I expect they do want to pursue the Black Panther franchise further...but what that looks like now, who knows. The James Bond treatment is the Marvel way.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I expect they do want to pursue the Black Panther franchise further...but what that looks like now, who knows. The James Bond treatment is the Marvel way.

Possibly. They have the option of retiring the character without retiring the property, by having someone else take up the mantle.
 

Wishbone

Paladin Radmaster
I trust Ryan Coogler and his team will do what they think is right with that property if they want to continue and are allowed to do so by Disney. There can be another Black Panther movie if they want there to be one, but there can't be another Chadwick Boseman.
 

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