Black Widow

[Maxperson]

Indeed, especially in the first one when the movie goes out of its way to acknowledge what a jerk stark is. Hell even as late as Spider-Man: far from home, the villain is generated as a result of Tony has been in the past.

contrast that with Scarlet Witch in wandavision. She holds an entire town hostage, and exposes them to effectively torture (as confirmed with Monica rambeau’s report). And yet Monica goes out of her way to defend Wanda from Sword and even defends Wanda to the town, saying “they don’t know what you have been through”

At no point does Wanda suffer consequences for her actions, nor does she really show remorse for what she did.

Black Widow is similar. At no point are her criminal acts mentioned by others or put in any negative light (such as killing every single person in that prison through the avalanche), she is the protagonist and therefore all acts are justified.

now plenty of movies use that trope…but Ironman did not, hence why you see people calling it out on one and not the other

Yeah, but those guards were all bad guys, and the avalanche started very, very far away from the prison. Unbelievably far, and noise causing an avalanche is a myth anyway, so it wasn't really her fault, but rather the fault of plot and bad writing.

 

[Janx]

But, "Hulk smash!" is like really cool, so that makes it okay.

No, Hulk is the special needs kid and you don't handle them the same way.

The rest of the team isn't normally causing massive collateral damage with their own powers. Punching, shooting bullets and arrows hasa limited area of effect in comparison.

 

[Maxperson]

No, Hulk is the special needs kid and you don't handle them the same way.

The rest of the team isn't normally causing massive collateral damage with their own powers. Punching, shooting bullets and arrows hasa limited area of effect in comparison.

Perhaps you didn't notice the winky face.

 

[MarkB]

Yeah, but those guards were all bad guys, and the avalanche started very, very far away from the prison. Unbelievably far, and noise causing an avalanche is a myth anyway, so it wasn't really her fault, but rather the fault of plot and bad writing.

And also, who puts a prison right at the base of three separate mountain faces that are all prone to avalanches? That was an accident waiting to happen.

 

[billd91]

And also, who puts a prison right at the base of three separate mountain faces that are all prone to avalanches? That was an accident waiting to happen.

Soviets - worry about safety? Perish the thought.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah, but those guards were all bad guys, and the avalanche started very, very far away from the prison. Unbelievably far, and noise causing an avalanche is a myth anyway, so it wasn't really her fault, but rather the fault of plot and bad writing.

Doesn’t matter if the writing is bad, at the end of the day they were the cause of the avalanche, thst is clearly established by the movie. The movie also chooses to ignore any consequences to the protagonist for the movie…which opens it up to nitpicks.

going back to Tony, now while I did argue that the movies at least establish some personal consequences for his actions:

1) most of them happen in later movies. So I don’t give too much guff to wandavision yet, if wanda has to pay the piper in multiverse of madness than thst works for me.

2) though tony suffered some personal grief from himself and his friends over ultron, quite frankly he suffers almost no real consequences for its creation, nor does banner. You could argue it was so unprecedented there were no laws on the books, but I can’t imagine that tony would avoid prison time completely for that, as the whole world would have been gunning for him after that

 

[MarkB]

2) though tony suffered some personal grief from himself and his friends over ultron, quite frankly he suffers almost no real consequences for its creation, nor does banner. You could argue it was so unprecedented there were no laws on the books, but I can’t imagine that tony would avoid prison time completely for that, as the whole world would have been gunning for him after that

Even if Ultron hadn't gone rogue, he would still have been a serious violation. I doubt Tony would have sought permission from world governments to implement him - he'd have been an omnipresent security guard enforcing order across the globe, ready to step in with massive force if anyone from an individual to a nation stepped out of line.

 

[Maxperson]

And now this.

Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney Over Streaming Release of ‘Black Widow,’ Disney and Hollywood Respond

Johansson says she was promised an exclusive theatrical release, and by putting the movie on the streaming platform, Disney and Marvel breached her contract.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Imaculata]

Wow, they sure are dedicated to screwing over Scarlett Jo.

UPDATE:

Disney has responded, and says Scarletts claims are sad and disturbing, and that she is ignoring the devastating effects covid has had on film production. They also claim her contract did not promise her any such thing.

First of all Disney, unexpected extra production costs (covid or otherwise) are not her problem. That is the risk of running a film studio. Don't try to pull a guilt trip here. And it is not like Disney is short for cash here either. Second, it should be pretty easy to figure out what is in the contract and what is not. I highly doubt Scarlett Jo would hire a lawyer if it wasn't in her contract.

So just pay up what she is owed.

 

[Blue]

I have seen Avengers all the way through multiple times and bits and pieces a million times and couldn't tell you what the bad guys names were.

You don't have to make your movie about the villain to have a good villain. Killmonger was a good villain...plenty of screentime, an understandable goal, and interesting character interaction with the hero. Same with Loki, or Ultron, or even Ghost. For each one of these, though, you have 3 "guy in pale makeup who wants to kill everyone because he is mad" villains nobody remembers.

(emphasis mine.)

These are two amusing paragraphs next to each other, one as you say you couldn't even tell us the names of the Avengers villains, two as you not only name them but call out two of the three Avengers bad guys as "good villains".

Not really disagreeing, I was just tickled by the juxtaposition. Marvel does need better villains. And it can be done in a Marvel movie - in addition to the ones you mention (esp. Killmonger!), the Sony Spider-Man films in the MCU had well fleshed out villains with complex motivations. Vulture letting Peter go because he saved his daughter's life is a great example.