Blade barrier - I don't get it...

[Sejs]

well my cloud moves all it's component weapons in a disc-shape when it spins. So neener-neener.


Appearance of a spell doesn't matter for much at all as long as the effects are the same.

 

[Coredump]

Yes it is a disk, but how *thick* is the disc?

I always thought of it as several feet think (top to bottom).

Also, at one point, we were under the impression that it was cylindrical also, so that there was an unharmed center area. Sort of like a wall of blades. But this was back in the 1e/2e days.

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[Hypersmurf]

Yes it is a disk, but how *thick* is the disc?

Essentially, it isn't. It's a plane, not a volume. If it's aligned vertically, then someone in one square is unafeected, and someone in the square beside him is unaffected, but someone crossing from one to the other (and thereby passing through the barrier) takes damage.

-Hyp.

 

[Malin Genie]

I've always thought of it as having infinitesimal thickness.

I'd like to add a question to the Blade Barrier discussion though - has it been clarified whether the BB deals damage to creatures only one, once per 'entry' or once per round (if trapped somehow in the BB)?

Edit: corrected spelling of 'infinitesimal'

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd like to add a question to the Blade Barrier discussion though - has it been clarified whether the BB deals damage to creatures only one, once per 'entry' or once per round (if trapped somehow in the BB)?

By the wording of the spell, damage only occurs under three conditions.

1. The creature is within the area when the spell is cast and either fails its Reflex Save or cannot/does not physically leave the area by the shortest route.

2. The creature enters the area.

3. The creature passes through the Barrier.

-Hyp.

 

[Coredump]

Essentially, it isn't. It's a plane, not a volume.

I've always thought of it as having infitesimal thickness.

That is cool, but those are just opinions. I don't see anything in the description that indicates this. It mentions a 'plane of rotation'; but it could be 100' tall, and still have a plane of rotation.

Furthermore, the PHB description says it provides *"One half cover"* for anyone beyond it. I fail to see how an infitesimally thin plane would do this. Plus, if it were very thin like that, it doesn't provide much of a barrier.





I believe the wording is fairly clear that you will continue to take damage if you do not leave the area. It mentions that a reflex save will negate the damage, if you leave. It is nonsensical to then assume that staying will let you ignore further damage. Plus the description of the spell would not make any sense if that were true.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Furthermore, the PHB description says it provides *"One half cover"* for anyone beyond it. I fail to see how an infitesimally thin plane would do this.

A wall of force has no thickness, but it provides full cover for anyone beyond it.

The Blade Barrier provides half-cover, because it's not a single contiguous wall - at any given instant, there are holes where there aren't any spinning blades. Enough for some arrows to get through, but not all. Enough to prevent AoOs against opponents behind it, but not to stop every melee attack made through it.

Plus, if it were very thin like that, it doesn't provide much of a barrier.

It provides a barrier of Nd6 damage to anyone passing through.

It won't stop you crossing, but it will let you know it was a Bad Idea...

I believe the wording is fairly clear that you will continue to take damage if you do not leave the area.

I strongly disagree. I don't think the wording says that at all - especially not clearly.

It mentions that a reflex save will negate the damage, if you leave.

That's right - when the spell first springs into being. If you don't leave, you take the damage.

It is nonsensical to then assume that staying will let you ignore further damage.

Why? The spell deals damage when certain conditions are met. If one of those conditions is not met, no damage is dealt.

Like a Flaming Sphere - if the caster moves it into a square with a creature, it stops moving for the round and deals damage. If the caster doesn't spend an MEA to move it, it doesn't deal damage - even if it's still in the square with the same creature.

-Hyp.

 

[Malin Genie]

Why? The spell deals damage when certain conditions are met. If one of those conditions is not met, no damage is dealt.

Like a Flaming Sphere - if the caster moves it into a square with a creature, it stops moving for the round and deals damage. If the caster doesn't spend an MEA to move it, it doesn't deal damage - even if it's still in the square with the same creature.

-Hyp.

Really? I always thought that a flaming sphere dealt damage to anyone who was in its square at the end of the caster's turn - so if there was already someone there the caster didn't have to move it....

If a blade barrier deals damage each time a creature passes through it, can a nasty wizard telekinese someone back and forth through one several times per round?

While I agree with Hypersmurf on the wording of the rules (having regained PHB access,) it does seem strange to me that having taken damage once a creature can stay in or move around within the BB area for several rounds (so long as she doesn't leave or re-enter) without taking any further damage.

 

[Coredump]

So let me get this straight.

You are saying, that if you walk into a "spinning disk of razor-sharp blades. These whirl and flash around a central point" You will take at least 13d6 damage. But if you continue to stand in the middle of this, or to even walk around for a few rounds, but not 'pass through' than you are okay?
Does that make *any* sense to you at all?
If you fail your save, you take damage, but you are then 'immune' to damage if you spend the next hour walking within these spinning razor sharp blades??? uh-huh, right.

And you are further saying, that if a flaming ball gets next to me, I take 2d6 points of damage, but I can then stand next to this burning fire as long as I want and be okay?
Sure, no problem....

I am sorry, but your statements make no sense. Your assertions reminds of the thread about 'dead' characters. Where the player died, and tried to keep playing. See, the rules didn't state any restrictions for a dead player, so he should still be able to continue


Further, you are making the assumption that they 'meant' to say that the cover bonus from the blade barrier *only* occurs if the plane of rotation is perpendicular; but they didn't. What they said makes perfect sense, as they said it, if the 'disk' is fairly thick. You are making an assumption that it is flat, nothing in the spell indicates that is the case, and the way they discuss the cover would indicate otherwise.
Even if you put it perpendicular, the two would have to be perfectly centered for it to make a difference with your interpretation.
It says the cover applies for those 'beyond' the barrier, not just for vertical uses.

Really? I always thought that a flaming sphere dealt damage to anyone who was in its square at the end of the caster's turn - so if there was already someone there the caster didn't have to move it....

Hey, if you want to listen to Hyper, and it now makes sense to you that you can share a 5' square, with a 6' tall 6' wide ball of fire, and *not take damage*, then that is your choice. But then be prepared for 'dead' characters to continue attacking, since no where in the rules does it say that you can't walk/cast/attack/etc. if you are dead.

While I agree with Hypersmurf on the wording of the rules (having regained PHB access,) it does seem strange to me that having taken damage once a creature can stay in or move around within the BB area for several rounds (so long as she doesn't leave or re-enter) without taking any further damage.

Of *course*it seems strange. Because it would make NO SENSE whatsoever. Walking through for a few seconds, TONS of damage, walking around for an hour, NO damage. okay, sure.

.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And you are further saying, that if a flaming ball gets next to me, I take 2d6 points of damage, but I can then stand next to this burning fire as long as I want and be okay?

Can't comment on the Blade Barrier. I've never had to deal with it in game. But in regards to the Flaming Sphere, we've always played it exactly as Hypersmurf described.

You don't take damage from the sphere being next to you. You take damage from the sphere bumping into you. Once the sphere does bump into you, it stops unless the wizard sets it in motion again.

Often, the wizard or druid in our party would "bounce" the sphere onto a single foe continuously in the same square. But really, it doesn't have to be that way. The wizard merely needs to will the sphere to move forward and bump up against whatever's in the square again.

Remember that two humanoids can share the same square. So too a humanoid and the Flaming Sphere, unless the wizard moves it to attack.