Blaming the System for Player/GM actions

[Aus_Snow]

Any 'min-maxing problem' is entirely in the players' court.

 

[pogre]

I think it is fair to say different game systems lend themselves to certain styles of play. Even so, I think almost any kind of fantasy campaign flavor and style can be realized in the 3.5 framework.

 

[Piratecat]

What profanity? You call *that* profanity?

This seems like a good time to remind folks not to bypass the language filter -- and not to be rude to one another. It's great to agree or disagree or criticize ideas, but please don't be snarky to other people.

Thanks!

I think game mechanics certainly influence player decisions. Take a character who is a wrestler, for instance. I'm a lot more likely to play one in 3e rules than 1e rules (anyone else remember the grappling/pummelling/overbearing tables?), and I'm still not likely to play one in 3e because the grappling rules are clumsy to me. If the rules were better, I'd find it more fun and I'd grapple more. I'd certainly "blame" the rules for any decision that is ultimately driven by the nature of the game game mechanics. I'm not sure I'd use 'blame,' though, as it comes off as a pejorative.

 

[WayneLigon]

No, it is not fair. Almost every single post I see about 'Has D&D lost X' or 'How to prevent Y' is a fault of the GM's or players, not of the system.

 

[Mr Jack]

Min/maxing is always a fault of the system and not the players.

Setting up a system that rewards certain forms of behaviour and then complaining when they occur is the design equivalent of being passive-aggressive.

 

[Krelios]

Who cares what's fair? The question should be is it the system's fault or the GM/Players? In that case, I'd say the system certainly encourages it, and I don't think it's a problem. I draw a line between min/maxing (which everyone does to some degree) and powergaming (which I abhor).

 

[tzor]

You do *not* have to min/max if a game doesn't try and balance. In fact, I would argue that if you are not chosing a character based on what you *want* vice what you *think* you need, then you aren't doing your job as a player - regardless of game system.

I might be mis-reading what you've written, but I think the biggest problem is not in and of itself min/maxing but mis-matching. Mismatching can take place on either power level (min/max or not min/max in the same party) or at the functional level. There is a common misconception that you can create a character and throw him into a collection of other similiarly created characters and everything will be fine.

That's nonsense. If I went into your home town, picked four people at random and had them form a group I can guarentee that they will not last long. Yes, groups form, but that's only because a population is often in the hundreds. Four random character sheets ain't going to be the forumla to a long term campaign, and all these accessories only makes the posibility of a mismatched party all the more possible.

It's not the supplements that are the problem. It's the failure to coordinate. If eveyone min/maxes then there is no problem. (I firmly believe in the happy medium, everyone should be a little improved, but not to the point of constant obsession. Every player should have a character with an opportunity to shine. The DM then needs to give those opportunites out on a relatively equal basis. Remember an opportunity does not guarentee success.)

I'm currently in a play by email game. You know you are going to have problems when you have a fire obsessed mage, a water obsessed cleric, a necromancer, and a minotaur cohort. (So what do I do? I've got a gold dragon wrought kobold monk. Hey do what I write, not what I do!) I'm not blaming the plethora of books for this mess, I blame the group for the lack of coherent group design. That's going to happen if there are only a few or a plethora of supplement books. It's just more obvious with the latter.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Is it always fair? no.

Is it ever fair? Yes.

Since the question asked can't be answered either way, I picked the more sensible of the questions to ask and answered it yes.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Society is to blame.

 

[iwatt]

Society is to blame.

Nah... it's the elves fault.... it's always the elves