D&D 5E Blees Still Broken/OP?

[Tony Vargas]

Each of the caster classes have a few uniquely effective and potent spells. It's those spells that allow that particular caster (and bards if they so choose) stand out. I wouldn't take them away or modify them.

Not to argue whether that's true or not, but would make it a very, well, inelegant design. If it were meant to be some class-defining thing, it could be a class feature instead of a spell, for instance.

 

[Celtavian]

Not to argue whether that's true or not, but would make it a very, well, inelegant design. If it were meant to be some class-defining thing, it could be a class feature instead of a spell, for instance.

I believe the types of spells you can cast are a class feature. They can't completely provide a full unique spell list for each class. Spell lists are meant to be part of a caster's class features including certain unique and powerful options that stand out as better than what other classes have at the same level.

I don't see a problem with it. Spells are the defining class feature of casters. It makes sense that each would have a few uniquely powerful spells that maybe do more than they should in ways that are appropriate to the class.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Bless is extremely powerful and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's an average of a +2 on all attack rolls and saves for three people or more.

That's highly unlikely. So unlikely, in fact, it should be disregarded as a potential play experience entirely. Never gonna happen.

 

[devincutler]

I don't think Bless is overpowered. Yes it is a go-to spell for most clerics, I think, and probably the one most likely on which to have his concentrations slot spent, but that doesn't make it overpowered. It just makes it better in many situations than many other opportunities.

The usefulness of Bless, though, is situational. If you are not fighting a foe that causes you to make saves, then that part is useless. If foes are low AC and you would hit them without it, then that part is useless. If both are together, then the entire spell is pretty useless.

I think Bless and Shield of Faith vie for use in our low level game (we are 4th level now). But we are situationally more able to extract use from Bless because I play a Battle Rager with GWM and that means I am often attacking with advantage with only a +2 to hit, and so that makes Bless critical. OTOH, if I can hit things easily using my GWM but the foes hit hard or have some special add on to attack (not poison, because...well...I am a dwarf) then I will want Shield of Faith instead.

 

[Celtavian]

That's highly unlikely. So unlikely, in fact, it should be disregarded as a potential play experience entirely. Never gonna happen.

Hmmm. I'm trying to figure out what you mean. Did you leave out a part of the quote you were responding to? I don't think anyone disputes what bless does.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Personally, I don't see it as a problem, even having played a cleric myself. Why? Because at lower levels, you only have so many slots. And unless you're doing a long rest after every battle (hardly the norm), you're gonna run out. Especially with party members who need healing, or the other 1st level spells you may have cast for a million other reason. By the time you get high enough level to have more slots, you're probably spending your concentration on something else.

Like Spirit Guardians

 

[Tony Vargas]

I believe the types of spells you can cast are a class feature.

Well of course they are. But if you have a specific spell you're 'supposed' to cast that "makes the class," the others are just pointlessly baroque dross. Break out the critical spell and make it a unique feature, by itself, and you avoid that. Functionally, there's little difference, it's just less inelegant. Less of an artificial reward for system mastery. (Again, not to argue whether Bless is such a spell or not.)

 

[famousringo]

Not to argue whether that's true or not, but would make it a very, well, inelegant design. If it were meant to be some class-defining thing, it could be a class feature instead of a spell, for instance.

Making them a spell instead of a class feature seems to be a deliberate choice to open up certain feat and subclass design options. Such as taking Magic Initiate if you want to make a Rogue Assassin who curses targets, or a Lore Bard with a familiar.

 

[hejtmane]

Bless is extremely powerful and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's an average of a +2 on all attack rolls and saves for three people or more. It's one of the best spells in the game and it makes the cleric class a potent choice to play. I wouldn't take it away or modify it because it is one of the most powerful of the cleric's spells and it would be like taking away shield from an arcane caster or eldtritch blast from a warlock. It may not fit every situation. It is an extremely cheap resource for boosting battles often.

Each of the caster classes have a few uniquely effective and potent spells. It's those spells that allow that particular caster (and bards if they so choose) stand out. I wouldn't take them away or modify them. Just let the players have their fun with the abilities and toughen up the enemies. It's the enemies that are too weak in 5E, not spells like bless that are broken or too strong. Enemies need to be buffed up to suit your table's style of play. Have fun making stronger enemies that can challenge players using spells, special abilities, feats, and magic items. Monster creation has never been so easy and enjoyable. I've been making tons of creatures to challenge my players and having a blast doing it.

Yet starting at 9th level a Fighter does not need this spell at least once per long rest
Halfing same from level 1
Lucky feat gets that option 3 times to reroll a bad save

That does not count races having advantage against certain saving throws

or class features like barbarian while in rage has advantage on all str saving throws

Like i said nice spell but at the same time sometimes is not all it is cracked up to be because other players have other tools at their hand

 

[mellored]

Bless gets outclassed by haste, which get's outclassed by greater invisibility, which get's outclassed by foresight+haste.


It's a bit OP for a level 1 spell, but not broken.

Hmm... Actually, i think i'll houserule it to be a level 2 spell.