Blind Spellcasters -- You don't face any direction.

[wolfen]

I have been scorned for my reluctance to accept that there is NO FACING in D&D. Right? No front, no back. Everyone on a battlefield is assumed to be scanning 360 degrees, etc. This is why a Monk deflecting arrows doesn't have to declare which direction he's facing. This is why (ridiculous as it is) you don't get any bonus for attacking someone's back and why a rogue doesn't get a sneak attack by sneaking behind someone...there's no behind.

So that being the case for combatants, shouldn't it be true for spellcasters? There is another thread asking about "Cloudkill" and how the wizard simply casts in the direction he's facing...but that runs into the problem. He's not definitively facing anywhere, and there's not a rule-defined mechanism for him to assert one.

SO, let's say a Spellcaster is casting Fireball or Lightning Bolt. Let's say he didn't declare a target when he first announced the spell to the DM and he is suddenly struck blind before releasing the spell -- he can't target...

1) Or can he? How do you rule?

2) Now you could go the concealment route. Everyone (every "line of sight") has full concealment. How would you resolve this?

3) Let's say he was struck blind in that same round and THEN starts to cast Fireball. He is ready to let it fly and says "Ok, I'm targetting 100 ft in front of me"...how do you adjudicate it? How do you decide what that means?


wolfen

 

[kreynolds]

This is why (ridiculous as it is) you don't get any bonus for attacking someone's back and why a rogue doesn't get a sneak attack by sneaking behind someone...

A rogue _can_ sneak attack by sneaking up behind them...when hiding and silent, when invisible, etc, etc.

 

[wolfen]

Re: Re: Blind Spellcasters -- You don't face any direction.

A rogue _can_ sneak attack by sneaking up behind them...when hiding and silent, when invisible, etc, etc.

Thanks...I'm sure that's helpful... somehow.

Weisenheimer.



wolfen

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Blind Spellcasters -- You don't face any direction.

Thanks...

You're welcome.

I'm sure that's helpful...somehow

It certainly is for me. It was a warning sign that I should stop reading right there.

Weisenheimer.

Nee!

wolfen

kreynolds

 

[James McMurray]

Why not just roll randomly to determine the direction. If anyone is in the bead's path, roll to see if they're hit. If noone and nothing is hit, the bead explodes at a distance of 100'.

Seems easy enough to me.

 

[hong]

3) Let's say he was struck blind in that same round and THEN starts to cast Fireball. He is ready to let it fly and says "Ok, I'm targetting 100 ft in front of me"...how do you adjudicate it? How do you decide what that means?

Is this a serious question?

 

[niteshade6]

The wizard can say things like "I target the space I last saw the enemy in" or "I throw the lightning bolt down the corridor I saw the enemy in before being blinded". Facing is irrelevent.

And as people pointed out, you go get a bonus for sneaking behind somebody because if you hide and sneak up on somebody your considered invisible.

You do get a bonus for attacking an enemy from behind because that's what is assumed to happen when you are flanking. If your not flanking it's assumed your enemy turns to face you when you run behind him. Much like would happen in real life. Unless he didn't know you were there in which case you would get invisibility bonuses which are even better.

There are certainly a few cases where lack of facing results in logical problems, but I don't think any of the cases you mentioned are among them.

 

[wolfen]

And as people pointed out, you go get a bonus for sneaking behind somebody because if you hide and sneak up on somebody your considered invisible.

IF true, this is silly and inconsistent. I haven't found one instance of "behind" regarding sneak attack or any other combat in any core book.

"Silent and hidden" is a buncha crap as an answer.

Another case in point: A deaf person and I are the only two people on the battlefield, and he is not yet threatened. I want to attack him from behind to get my "attacking from behind" bonus. How would I know when I can do that? What is the "attacking from behind" bonus you speak of?

You do get a bonus for attacking an enemy from behind because that's what is assumed to happen when you are flanking.

It's the 3e attempt, but this is not entirely accurate because you do not have to be "behind" someone to flank them. 2 people 180 degrees from one another can't be behind the same humanoid, for example. WOTC created this flanking rule to avoid the facing question. Which one's facing the front of the enemy?

"The one attacking them" is the default answer, but then you see that you're not really getting a flanking bonus for being BEHIND them, are you?

There are certainly a few cases where lack of facing results in logical problems, but I don't think any of the cases you mentioned are among them. [/B]

So in other words, you accept the idea that the wizard's sense of direction when blind is unerring. That's fine. But I can see how there might be other valid opinions. I, for one, think that if you asked that same wizard to run down the hallway he just saw that eventually he's gonna run into a side wall.


wolfen

 

[Numion]

SO, let's say a Spellcaster is casting Fireball or Lightning Bolt. Let's say he didn't declare a target when he first announced the spell to the DM and he is suddenly struck blind before releasing the spell -- he can't target...

1) Or can he? How do you rule?

Aren't Lightning Bolt and Fireball area spells anyway? If they are, targeting isn't relevant. I'd say he can put the spell where he wants, or if he can't it has nothing to do with facing, but the fact that they can't see.

2) Now you could go the concealment route. Everyone (every "line of sight") has full concealment. How would you resolve this?

He can't target anyone when blind. LB and FB aren't spells that require targeting, IMO. No point going that route.

3) Let's say he was struck blind in that same round and THEN starts to cast Fireball. He is ready to let it fly and says "Ok, I'm targetting 100 ft in front of me"...how do you adjudicate it? How do you decide what that means?

Do'h, ask the player what he means. Usually when a player says something like that it means the direction where his character was last moving. Or it could mean something else. So you'd have to ask. No harm in asking, no?

You seem to be confused about spells that require targeting (they say affects one target or somesuch) and area spells that affect everyone in the area.

 

[Petrosian]

When someone cannot see but wishes to make directional or locational decisions, I have them make listen checks, and dtermine the closeness to their intended location from that. While the circumstantial modifiers are many, a rule of thumb has a listen check to DC20 as dead on, DC 15 they gets close, a 10 as significantly off and at 5 or less its pretty much random. I have them make the roll before starting the spell, they typically ask "can i tell where..." and i have them make the listen check then. usually, if the result is low and the result is "you really cannot make out much at all as to where people and things are in the din of noise" I find they do not throw spells such as you describe.

I have seen a blinded mage catch more PCs than enemies in burning hands and other spells when he tried it, on more than one occasion.