blinking questions

[THEBIGLOU]

Guys/Gals,

I have a couple of simple question for you. Can you sneak attack when blinking if the opponent has a see invisibility up? How about True Seeing ?

Why does blink give you the ability to sneak attack?

I have some views on the above, but want to hear everyones opion before I post mine.

Thanks,

THEBIGLOU

 

[italianranma]

Blink
Transmutation
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
You “blink” back and forth between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane. You look as though you’re winking in and out of reality very quickly and at random.
Blinking has several effects, as follows.
Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn’t help opponents, since you’re ethereal and not merely invisible. If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20% (for concealment).
If the attacker can see invisible creatures, the miss chance is also only 20%. (For an attacker who can both see and strike ethereal creatures, there is no miss chance.) Likewise, your own attacks have a 20% miss chance, since you sometimes go ethereal just as you are about to strike.
Any individually targeted spell has a 50% chance to fail against you while you’re blinking unless your attacker can target invisible, ethereal creatures. Your own spells have a 20% chance to activate just as you go ethereal, in which case they typically do not affect the Material Plane.
While blinking, you take only half damage from area attacks (but full damage from those that extend onto the Ethereal Plane). You strike as an invisible creature (with a +2 bonus on attack rolls), denying your target any Dexterity bonus to AC.
You take only half damage from falling, since you fall only while you are material.
While blinking, you can step through (but not see through) solid objects. For each 5 feet of solid material you walk through, there is a 50% chance that you become material. If this occurs, you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet so traveled. You can move at only three-quarters speed (because movement on the Ethereal Plane is at half speed, and you spend about half your time there and half your time material.)
Since you spend about half your time on the Ethereal Plane, you can see and even attack ethereal creatures. You interact with ethereal creatures roughly the same way you interact with material ones.
An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.
An ethereal creature can see and hear the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and insubstantial. Sight and hearing on the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet.
Force effects and abjurations affect you normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can’t attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane. Treat other ethereal creatures and objects as material.

Ok, so this is from the SRD, so if there are any errors blame WOTC. Anyway here is the relevent data:
You strike as an invisible creature (with a +2 bonus on attack rolls), denying your target any Dexterity bonus to AC.
So that is why you can sneak attack. So if your opponent can see invisible creatures (and therefore Ethereal ones) then he gets to keep his dex bonus, and not a valid sneak attack target.

Incidentally I made an arcane trickster around this concept (I'm still 3 levels short of the Prc) so I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[THEBIGLOU]

You strike as an invisible creature (with a +2 bonus on attack rolls), denying your target any Dexterity bonus to AC.
So that is why you can sneak attack. So if your opponent can see invisible creatures (and therefore Ethereal ones) then he gets to keep his dex bonus, and not a valid sneak attack target.

Please notice the "You strike as"... It does not say you are invisible...you are not invisible, so why should a see invisibility stop you from denying you opponent Dex to AC???

 

[Caliban]

Please notice the "You strike as"... It does not say you are invisible...you are not invisible, so why should a see invisibility stop you from denying you opponent Dex to AC???

You are in fact invisible for part of the time. When you "blink" to the ethereal plane you are not visible on the prime material plane, but can see creatures on the prime material plane. That is what allows you to "strike as...". If they can see ethereal creatures (which see invisibility allows them to do), then you do not count as being invisible.

 

[ARandomGod]

Ok, so this is from the SRD, so if there are any errors blame WOTC. Anyway here is the relevent data:
You strike as an invisible creature (with a +2 bonus on attack rolls), denying your target any Dexterity bonus to AC.
So that is why you can sneak attack. So if your opponent can see invisible creatures (and therefore Ethereal ones) then he gets to keep his dex bonus, and not a valid sneak attack target.

Incidentally I made an arcane trickster around this concept (I'm still 3 levels short of the Prc) so I'll let you know how it goes.

Depending on the campaign, get yourself a ghost touch weapon and you're really set.
You might also research a spell that puts ghost touch on a weapon and/or on 50 ammo. That way you can use ranged weapons (economically) as well. Hellooo ranged sneak attack. Additionally, look into aimed damage spells that do force damage ... spells that will damage both on the material and etherial plane, no matter where they're cast. All good things for the blink spell.

 

[THEBIGLOU]

You are in fact invisible for part of the time. When you "blink" to the ethereal plane you are not visible on the prime material plane, but can see creatures on the prime material plane. That is what allows you to "strike as...". If they can see ethereal creatures (which see invisibility allows them to do), then you do not count as being invisible.

Caliban,
Being partially invisible is not invisible. You follow none of the rules of invis. Furthermore you don't even have total concealment. 1. You are targetable and 2. If an opponent can strike ethereal (non visual) his miss chance goes down to 20%. This says to me that at best you have concealment (not total concealment) which shouldn't deny your opponent his Dex, unless the spell specifically granted it regardless of invisibility.

In the Blink spell they give every condition that modifies the miss chance, but never mention anything that that takes away your ability to strike "as" an invisible attacker. Personally I believe that it comes from being on two different planes of existence and not from anything visual.
BIGLOU

 

[THEBIGLOU]

Depending on the campaign, get yourself a ghost touch weapon and you're really set.
You might also research a spell that puts ghost touch on a weapon and/or on 50 ammo.

Random,

Those are good ideas, but I prefer improved blink as a 5th level spell. Of courcse your idea works much better bofore you can cast spells of 5th level.

BIGLOU

 

[Hypersmurf]

Depending on the campaign, get yourself a ghost touch weapon and you're really set.
You might also research a spell that puts ghost touch on a weapon and/or on 50 ammo. That way you can use ranged weapons (economically) as well. Hellooo ranged sneak attack. Additionally, look into aimed damage spells that do force damage ... spells that will damage both on the material and etherial plane, no matter where they're cast. All good things for the blink spell.

There are a few things wrong with that.

Firstly, Ghost Touch allows the corporeal and incorporeal to interact. It doesn't cross the boundary between the Material and Ethereal planes.

A Ghost Touch weapon doesn't help you hit someone who's blinking, and it doesn't help someone who's blinking hit you.

Secondly, Force effects will damage someone on the Ethereal plane if they originate on the Material, but they will not affect the Material plane if they originate on the Ethereal. If you're blinking, and you cast Magic Missile, there's still a 20% chance that you'll be Ethereal when it goes off, and the spell will not hurt anyone on the Material plane.

-Hyp.

 

[THEBIGLOU]

There is a Prc in the Manual of the Planes that can strike across the Etheral barrier. They work really well if blink is your method of attack. But you would probably be better served increasing your caster level and getting improved blink.

Not too many opinions on the blink thing..... Is this question too rule"sy" for people. Or do people feel that it comes to too much of an opinion? I am trying to get a ruling for my campaign am looking for some help.

Thanks in advance guys/gals,

BIGLOU

 

[Caliban]

Caliban,
Being partially invisible is not invisible. You follow none of the rules of invis. Furthermore you don't even have total concealment. 1. You are targetable and 2. If an opponent can strike ethereal (non visual) his miss chance goes down to 20%. This says to me that at best you have concealment (not total concealment) which shouldn't deny your opponent his Dex, unless the spell specifically granted it regardless of invisibility.

In the Blink spell they give every condition that modifies the miss chance, but never mention anything that that takes away your ability to strike "as" an invisible attacker. Personally I believe that it comes from being on two different planes of existence and not from anything visual.
BIGLOU

If you already know the answer you want, and won't accept anything to the contrary, why ask the question?