D&D 5E Block, Dodge, and Armor as DR

[BookTenTiger]

I was remembering fondly playing d20 Conan, one of my favorite d20 games. I was thinking about what it would look like to port something from d20 Conan into 5e.

In d20 Conan, your character had two defenses: Block and Dodge.

Block = 10 + Strength Modifier + Shield
Dodge = 10 + Dexterity Modifier

Armor then served as Damage Reduction instead of a bonus to Armor Class.

I believe there were some restrictions on when you could Block instead of dodge, such as against Ranged Attacks.

The other important rule was Massive Damage. When characters received 20 or more damage, they had to make a Constitution Saving Throw (I believe it was against half the damage) or die. It was a pretty brutal system.

So what would this look like ported over into 5e?

• Overall, characters would get hit more often. However, they would take less damage. But effects that happen on a hit, such as a snake's grapple or a drow's poison, would occur more often.
• Strength builds could still have solid Defense.
• Armors would lose their AC but gain DR.
  • This could also be a neat opportunity to add some more flavor to armor, such as Double Damage Resistance that only effects some kinds of damage. For example, one kind of armor could have Double-Damage Resistance against piercing, and other slashing.
• If the Massive Damage system were ported over, characters would be saving against Massive Damage quite often from spells, though not often from weapon attacks.
  • I also think in 5e this kind of Massive Damage system would send characters to 0 HP instead of outright killing them. OR a failed Saving Throw versus Massive Damage could result in a failed Death Save, even as the character is still conscious and fighting.

What are your thoughts?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

More trouble than it is worth. The current system is balanced on the D&D paradigm. Change that to the Conan D20 one and every thing, Spell damage output, monster hp, AC and damage output has to be changed to match.
It would be better to port the elements of D&D you want in to Conan D20 than the other way around.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

We played the 1st version of the Conan game that Mongoose (?) put out. IIRC, we did a quick little session to get a feel for it, then I had them up their PC's to level 4. Then I pulled out "The Forbidden City". This is, imnsho, the perfect "Conan adventure" (at least for AD&D). We had a lot of fun in it, played for a few sessions. Definitely a system I'd play again... but, again, we just DO NOT like "Feats" at all, and the "high numbers/attacks" inherent to the 3.x/d20 system wasn't something we wanted to get into.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Mordhau]

You can't use Armour as DR as a number. It doesn't work due to scaling issues. Either it becomes increasingly less useful as you level up or it scales and you quickly reach a point where PCs are completely invulnerable to less threats.

To even have a stab at it you would need to really go through all the monsters and rewrite them with those issues in mind. (For one thing, DR means that single high damamge attacks becomes much more threatening when compared to single attacks - and inversely Fighters get screwed more than rogues if fighter monsters with DR). One thing to remember is that D20 Conan was never intended to work with regular 3.X monsters.

If you want Armour as DR you need to work with the concept of Resistance (because half damage scales at all levels and against all kinds of attacks).

 

[Nebulous]

I would love to see something like this in D&D, but it would be a 6e overhaul. You can't muck with the mechanics like that without tremendous ripple effect.

 

[GMMichael]

More trouble than it is worth. . . It would be better to port the elements of D&D you want in to Conan D20 than the other way around.

I would love to see something like this in D&D, but it would be a 6e overhaul. You can't muck with the mechanics like that without tremendous ripple effect.

Or you can try it at your home table, and watch all hell break loose!

Armor as DR works well, but it needs a limit. Otherwise you can get a slight invincibility problem. My solution is minimum damage: a successful hit can't be reduced to zero damage.

So more hits and limited DR sounds like fun!

 

[BookTenTiger]

I'm trying to remember, but I think Conan also had some rule where if you rolled high enough on an attack roll, you ignored DR.

 

[CubicsRube]

I've tried to tinker with alternate armour rules in D&D, but it's a huge amount of work. Once you get into adjusting damage and hit points for everything you're really getting into new system territory.

I'd prefer to play something that has DR baked in, like witcher. It uses fairly static HP and damage and therefore can use armour as DR much more effectively.

 

[AtomicPope]

We played the 1st version of the Conan game that Mongoose (?) put out. IIRC, we did a quick little session to get a feel for it, then I had them up their PC's to level 4. Then I pulled out "The Forbidden City". This is, imnsho, the perfect "Conan adventure" (at least for AD&D). We had a lot of fun in it, played for a few sessions. Definitely a system I'd play again... but, again, we just DO NOT like "Feats" at all, and the "high numbers/attacks" inherent to the 3.x/d20 system wasn't something we wanted to get into.

Completely agree. I loved, and hated, the Conan system from Mongoose. There was a unique balance between dodgers, parriers, and blockers that made the system kewl. I really liked their magic system as it rewarded "evil." The easiest way to cast powerful spells was sacrifice. It really fit into the Conan themes.

Not to highjack the thread but the "realism" of armor as DR is only offset by weapon variety. That means completely overhauling the system, and making it a lot like AD&D with armor mods for weapons.

 

[Ancalagon]

If you want to do something like this, I would recommend looking at warhammer frpg (I am most familiar with 2nd edition and I recommend it).

It is more realistic. But the problem with these systems is that they add steps to the "combat protocol". Let me illustrate

D&D:
Roll to hit enemy AC --> Roll for damage --> Apply damage

Warhammer:
Roll weapon skill check --> enemy rolls to dodge or parry (if succeeds, attack fails) --> roll damage --> reduce damage by toughness and armor --> apply damage --> roll for critical hit if wounds (hp) reaches zero

(Oh, and I skipped what happens if you roll max damage, and hit location. )

It's more realistic! It takes into account the skill of the attacker and defender, the armor is a last line of defense, a lot of attacks miss... Buuuut is it worth it? Is it more fun? That's the question you have to ask.