Blog: Background and Themes a closer look.

[gideonpepys]

Well, it might not apply to you... but for many other players, the fluff that is attached to the mechanics actually matters...

Yes, we could certainly strip ALL fluff away from every single aspect of the game and then layer our own fluff on top of the mechanics that remain... but what is the point? If we wanted to do that, we could play HERO System and create the entirety of the fluff ourselves.

No one is objecting to themes and backgrounds as fluff. Themes have to be fluff by their very definition.

What I really don't like the sound of is prepackaged characters all designed for the benefit of people who can't be bothered to familiarise themselves with the game, and simply making neat 'customization tools' like background and themes all about feats and skills.

Feats and skills (and suggested packages if need be) should be one system - part of core perhaps. (Although some players think even feats and skills are too complex, apparently.)

Background and theme should be an additional layer of complexity and depth - optional if the designers feel they need to be.

That way we have more tools at our disposal instead of taking all of our tools and making them all part of the same system.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Hmmh, as i elaborated above, this way, feats are more meaningful, as they may be abilities that former belonged to classes. A fighter is just the base chassis, the soldier theme is what makes him the traditional full armored 2nd or 3rd edition fighter. The archer theme may instead make him the 4th edition ranger if he also takes the wilderness background.

If you have too many subsystems, you make the game too complex and unwieldy. Multiclassing, multitheming maybe a way to get additional skills by default will really make your character very customizable.

 

[YRUSirius]

That's a shame, but it is my contention that the 'Chris' type doesn't buy the books. [...] But the game should not be built to cater for that player as a baseline because that kind of player doesn't buy the books. Maybe a copy of the Player's Handbook, which remains suspiciously free of spine damage.

Nah, this is exactly what this game need agains. More Chris types. What do you think who bought that evergreen product the Red Mentzer Box?

-YRUSirius

 

[Minigiant]

Rob mentioned suggested backgrounds and themes for each class. Using on the newly redesigned info page, what do you think/prefer this suggestions be (for players stuck with DM Type 2)?

Cleric- Priest-Guardian
Fighter- Soldier+Slayer
Rogue- Thief+Lurker
Wizard-Sage+Mystic

 

[YRUSirius]

I'm wondering what the lurker theme feats will do, if even a wizard/cleric/fighter can choose them.

I hoped only the fighter could take the slayer or guardian theme, only the rogue could take the lurker or archer theme, etc. I hoped the theme would be the first kind of specialisation of the class - kinda like a build.

Now I'm wondering what the wizard will get mechanically if he chooses a lurker or a slayer theme.

-YRUSirius

 

[howandwhy99]

How will Themes and Backgrounds work for NPCs?

If I open up the Monster Manual and look up Human will there be humans there of different NPC classes?

What about the Thief class, which was greatly defined by abilities that resembled skills, will most of their class abilities be subsumed under skills?

Will Bard be a core class, a prestige class, or an upper tier class or whatever, or will it be an advanced theme?

Party backgrounds sound like single PCs starting as associates with NPCs or in even stronger relationships with NPCs. Is it possible to promote group background creation during a character creation session? Something that promotes players who want to tie their characters together somehow from the start, but doesn't hinder players who mostly or entirely don't want to start with the group knowing their background?

 

[Minigiant]

I'm wondering what the lurker theme feats will do, if even a wizard/cleric/fighter can choose them.

I hoped only the fighter can take the slayer or guardian theme, only the rogue could take the lurker or archer theme, etc. I hoped the theme would be the first kind spezialisation of the class - kinda like a build.

Now I'm wondering what the wizard will get mechanically if he chooses a lurker or a slayer theme.

-YRUSirius

My guess is that themes are not as focused on a combat style as we think.

Perhaps the lurker theme just grants a bonus to damage when hidden. So a wizard might deal more damage with spell while behind the obscuring mist spell, when invisible, when hiding, or when the target is blinded. So a Lurker would be encouraged to take a background with Stealth or spells that hamper vision.

Slayer might give bonus damage to melee attacks. So a wizard would want to prepare melee touch attacks like shocking grasp and chill touch.

 

[Blackwarder]

There should be no bonus given to people who won't take the time to build their character. People who take the time to be invested in the system should be slightly rewarded for their due diligence.

I completely disagree, I don't want one of the goals of D&DNext to be system mastery, I want to be able to tell my players to think about how they see their character and not bother with the fact that the long sword is the best weapon in the game.

Warder

 

[Sunseeker]

I completely disagree, I don't want one of the goals of D&DNext to be system mastery, I want to be able to tell my players to think about how they see their character and not bother with the fact that the long sword is the best weapon in the game.

Warder

I agree. Building your own character should be done because you want to, not because if you checkmark the "I built it myself" button in the builder, you get a +1 bonus to your ego. If you're unsatisfied with the themes because they don't generate enough flavor, enough power, or the particular feeling you're going for, you should build you own. But you shouldn't be rewarded with in-game bonuses for that. If a player develops a uniquely innovative theme, they should be IMO, able to submit it to Wizards where other people using digital tools can view it and possibly select it.

 

[Blackwarder]

I agree. Building your own character should be done because you want to, not because if you checkmark the "I built it myself" button in the builder, you get a +1 bonus to your ego. If you're unsatisfied with the themes because they don't generate enough flavor, enough power, or the particular feeling you're going for, you should build you own. But you shouldn't be rewarded with in-game bonuses for that. If a player develops a uniquely innovative theme, they should be IMO, able to submit it to Wizards where other people using digital tools can view it and possibly select it.

Preferably using the new wizards market that allow people to sell and share their creations!

Warder