D&D 5E Blog of Holding Takes on Treasure Distribution and 1 XP/1 GP

[Dausuul]

I'm honestly rather confused as to why people want this as an option. For starters, it doesn't really make a lot of sense in the context of the world.

I'm confused why anyone ever tries to make sense of XP within the context of the world. As an in-world mechanic, it's utterly ludicrous and always has been. You have to study for years to become an apprentice wizard capable of casting 1st-level spells, but you can go from apprentice to archmage in a matter of months by slogging through dungeons? You can kill monsters to get better at skills that have nothing to do with combat? XP makes hit points look like a carefully-researched model of real-world trauma medicine.

XP is a metagame mechanic. Its purpose is not to model anything in the game world, but to incentivize player behavior with rewards and to hand out new toys on a schedule. The idea of XP for gold is for DMs who want a "tomb raider" campaign, where the PCs are focused on plundering treasure, and monsters are an obstacle to be circumvented rather than a goal to be sought out.

Edit: Just saw that this thread was recently necroed from 2014. Doesn't change my answer, but I guess it does reduce the odds of a reply.

 

[NotAYakk]

Or, another way to look at it.

Imagine if in order to gain levels, your party has to find MacGuffins of the Gods. You find an MacGuffins, you do a ritual, and boom, you and 5 of your closest friends gain a level.

As a DM, you now build a world where the MacGuffins are placed in ways that encourage adventure. There are dangers near each one, there is travel time, there is research needed to find them, etc. Maybe MacGuffins have a "level" on them, so a low level MacGuffin won't work to give a high level PC another level.

Players can go off and fight pirates or overthrow kingdoms, but those don't give levels. They might give temporal power, they might recruit people to their cause, they might give gold or even magic treasure.

But if the players want to increase their level? They gotta go for MacGuffins.

What I've just done is permit the DM to set up a sandbox world where PCs are free to seek whatever goals they want, but I've set up a set of carrots.

There will be magic items they can find, there will be gold treasure hordes, there will be people they can form alliances with, and there will be MacGuffins that give them character levels.

Now I'll intertwine the MacGuffins with the overarching story I want to tell in the world; there will be some reason why they grant power, there will be a doomsday clock, there will be rivals going for them, etc. But this relatively simple carrot provides a self-contained reason why any power-hungry PC would want to go along with the adventure, and instead of rail-roading PCs I simply place beacons for them to self-navigate by.

In old school D&D, gold can provide exactly this same motivation. The gold is where the gold is, the DM places it. The players now self-navigate towards where they think gold is, instead of randomly wandering around killing things to gain power.

 

[Dausuul]

The other thing about XP for gold is that it solves a longstanding issue in D&D: Most of the reasons people want money - necessities of life, personal comforts, entertainment, prestige, influence - are not modeled in the game. This means money isn't a motivating factor for PCs unless a) the players make an effort to roleplay that desire or b) the game provides some other incentive to want money.

D&D has historically offered two such incentives. One was XP for gold: When you get paid, you level up. The other was the magic item shop: When you get paid, you can buy Phat Lewt. Magic item shops were the solution in 3E and 4E, but they come with their own problems. 5E has largely dispensed with that solution, but hasn't implemented anything else, and as a result, I have often seen players reach the point where they shrug at mundane treasure and barely bother to track their finances, because they have more gold than they can ever spend.

 

[reelo]

Not only Gold for XP! The gold needs to be safely hauled back to civilization! Imagine a party that has slain a dragon. They might be the "new owners" of the hoard, but as long as the (sizeable) treasure is still in the lair, it's useless. Getting it securely back to town is now an adventure in itself! Carts, mules, guards, logistics, it's all part of the endeavour. That's what "emergent storytelling" is about!

 

[CapnZapp]

5E has largely dispensed with that solution, but hasn't implemented anything else

Exactly.

They could have provided an implementation to support the (widespread) playing style.

They could have removed gold from adventures, making you scrounge for resources.

They could have done both.

But they did neither, and still claim credit. Far too many players fail to see this for what it is: eatcakism.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm confused why anyone ever tries to make sense of XP within the context of the world. As an in-world mechanic, it's utterly ludicrous and always has been. You have to study for years to become an apprentice wizard capable of casting 1st-level spells, but you can go from apprentice to archmage in a matter of months by slogging through dungeons? You can kill monsters to get better at skills that have nothing to do with combat? XP makes hit points look like a carefully-researched model of real-world trauma medicine.

XP is a metagame mechanic. Its purpose is not to model anything in the game world, but to incentivize player behavior with rewards and to hand out new toys on a schedule. The idea of XP for gold is for DMs who want a "tomb raider" campaign, where the PCs are focused on plundering treasure, and monsters are an obstacle to be circumvented rather than a goal to be sought out.

Edit: Just saw that this thread was recently necroed from 2014. Doesn't change my answer, but I guess it does reduce the odds of a reply.

I'd say there's not much to reply to. With respect, you're pushing at an open door...

(Do feel free to keep discussing why anyone would want to use xp for gold, or even more interestingly, how you would go about implementing it in a modern D&D campaign )

PS. At the very least, you got a reply!

 

[CubicsRube]

XP is merely a tool to incentivise certain kinds of behaviour.

If you want to encourage the exploration pillar, give XP for exploring.

If you want to encourage the social pillar, give XP for making important contacts and uncovering secrets.

If you want to encourage fighting, give XP for killing things...


I one day want to run a GP for XP sandbox campaign. However, each PC will have to have a personal goal and they will only get XP for gold spent towards this goal. Whether this is a cleric trying to build temples to his god in different cities, a fighter making his own stronghold and army, a wizard trying to discover immortality, whatever it is, it has to make sense to the charavter and create an effect in the world that others will respond to.

That cleric might attract the attention of some cultists, the fighters army might worry some local nations. The wizard in his tower might become the subject of other adventurers raids....

I'm recruiting them to help me write the campaign basically.

 

[CapnZapp]

I one day want to run a GP for XP sandbox campaign. However, each PC will have to have a personal goal and they will only get XP for gold spent towards this goal.

I wouldn't be so restrictive, truth be told.

I think it's enough you take note of what the PCs do end up spending their gold on, and have that sprout new opportunities.

No need to formalize it. Asking the player to specify and then commit to a particular goal to me just equals lock-in, for little actual gain. You'll get just as many good campaign ideas either way.

After all, the priorities of PCs (and players) do change over time. Coming up with a goal at chargen just comes across as needlessly difficult, when you can just jot down their expenses. So what if the barbarian spends his few coins at low level on wine and women - each level yields exponentially more gold, which enables a player to switch goals.

Depending on the exact edition and system of D&D you play, a character can easily donate much more at level 6 than during levels 1-3 combined. So what if the barbarian "wasted" his gold at low level? At level 6 he's found his calling (whatever it is) and no gold-to-xp decision made at level 1 or 3 matters much any longer. I find this property of D&D loot to be something we should consider a feature not a bug.

Plus this: obviously players will want to tell you their raid down the Gnoll caves were in pursuit of their personal goal. Regardless of goal! After all, xp-for-gold assumes gold is the end goal of adventurers! In other words, I wouldn't want to set up a situation where a player might feel compelled to spend gold on something that doesn't count towards his goal!

Just an observation.

 

[CodeFlayer]

If my numbers are right the coin portion of a tier one hoard from the DMG has an average weight of around 322 pounds @ 1/10 lb each. Personal encumbrance issues aside, I think it potentially great fun to give a 1st level party say, 10 000 silver trove and let them explain their plan to move 1 000 pounds of weight - - If they choose, of course. I wouldn't pull this often, but as a one off (especially in a mint?) it can be great fun and reward the player that insists a donkey or such could be useful to bring along - or doom the party.

edit - corrected average weight from 360 to ~322

 

[CubicsRube]

I wouldn't be so restrictive, truth be told.

I think it's enough you take note of what the PCs do end up spending their gold on, and have that sprout new opportunities.

No need to formalize it. Asking the player to specify and then commit to a particular goal to me just equals lock-in, for little actual gain. You'll get just as many good campaign ideas either way.

After all, the priorities of PCs (and players) do change over time. Coming up with a goal at chargen just comes across as needlessly difficult, when you can just jot down their expenses. So what if the barbarian spends his few coins at low level on wine and women - each level yields exponentially more gold, which enables a player to switch goals.

Depending on the exact edition and system of D&D you play, a character can easily donate much more at level 6 than during levels 1-3 combined. So what if the barbarian "wasted" his gold at low level? At level 6 he's found his calling (whatever it is) and no gold-to-xp decision made at level 1 or 3 matters much any longer. I find this property of D&D loot to be something we should consider a feature not a bug.

Plus this: obviously players will want to tell you their raid down the Gnoll caves were in pursuit of their personal goal. Regardless of goal! After all, xp-for-gold assumes gold is the end goal of adventurers! In other words, I wouldn't want to set up a situation where a player might feel compelled to spend gold on something that doesn't count towards his goal!

Just an observation.

Players will be able to change their goals every time they level or it feels thematically appropriate.