D&D 5E XP for Gold (without the XP)

[Lanefan]

To me this feels like 'video game' mechanics, and it can hurt storytelling options.

You no longer have the freedom to spend that money on story related ideas. No building a castle, freeing slaves by purchasing them and releasing them, buying a skyship, etc... There is a lot that you can do storywise with PC wealth.

And it's specifically noted that the intent is that the PCs will tend to accrue more wealth than the training costs will eat up, so they'll still be able to save up for other things.

You also have to stop the action and 'return to town' to level up often.

I think that might be the point; though I should ask, @Charlaquin , whether you intend to keep 5e's standard rather-fast rate of advancement or slow it down a bit; because the standard 5e advancement rate will likely see them needing to train at low levels just about every time they sneeze.

Or, perhaps travel far and wide to find a master to train you. This is not possible if you have a storyline with a time limitation - which either means they skip leveling up, or they can't meet any such deadlines. That either punishes them for following a story or takes the intensity out of many storylines. That isn't generally fun.

It forces a sometimes-nasty choice on to the players: to carry on untrained or to stop and train and maybe let things develop elsewhere in ways undesired. Or, as DM you just set the pace of the backstory and plot a little slower, e.g. the BBEG is working on a year-long plan that the PCs have to stop rather than a month-long plan.

Though this does raise question 2 for Charlaquin: what happens to a character if it cannot - or decides not to - train?

It is also extra accounting. Some of the most common changes we've seen in the game are aimed at reducing the accounting. Milestone experience eliminates individual experince - and it has been widely used. In the 1980s many of us tracked every meal and every lb carried - but in modern D&D it is far more common to abstract it and not sweat the details as it gets in the way of fun.

I'd assume players are already tracking their characters' finances; all this does is add one line item per level to that tracking.

 

[Lanefan]

Oh, and grammar nitpick: treasure is found in hoards. Hordes are the creatures defending said treasure.

 

[Charlaquin]

Brilliant stuff.

The only quibble I'd have is that training from about 12th-level and upwards shouldn't need an instructor but instead be self-directed, in order to avoid having to have that many high-level NPCs floating around in the setting if you don't want them.

Thanks! My thinking was that a “suitable instructor” for characters 11th level and up would likely not be a more experienced adventurer, but some kind of supernatural mentor. The idea is that the need for new instructors would be a driver of adventure, pushing the players to venture into more and more dangerous places in search of such instructors.

 

[Charlaquin]

And it's specifically noted that the intent is that the PCs will tend to accrue more wealth than the training costs will eat up, so they'll still be able to save up for other things.

I think that might be the point; though I should ask, @Charlaquin , whether you intend to keep 5e's standard rather-fast rate of advancement or slow it down a bit; because the standard 5e advancement rate will likely see them needing to train at low levels just about every time they sneeze.

That is intended, yes. By shifting advancement to gold-based instead of XP-based, the DM has a lot of control over the pace of advancement. I planned the costs around the expected value of treasure hoards from the DMG, and since the DM decides how to distribute that treasure, they have an easy control valve; if you want to slow advancement down, you can spread the treasure out more. If you want to speed it up, you can increase the hoard density. If you follow the guidelines suggested in the 5e DMG, players should be able to level up roughly once every other session. But in my experience, most 5e DMs hand out a lot less treasure than the DMG advises, which works out because in my experience most 5e DMs also ignore XP and tell players when to level up, and do so much less often than once every other session.

It forces a sometimes-nasty choice on to the players: to carry on untrained or to stop and train and maybe let things develop elsewhere in ways undesired. Or, as DM you just set the pace of the backstory and plot a little slower, e.g. the BBEG is working on a year-long plan that the PCs have to stop rather than a month-long plan.

Though this does raise question 2 for Charlaquin: what happens to a character if it cannot - or decides not to - train?

Nothing in particular. Indeed, it’s intended that a player might make the decision to buy themself some full plate or whatever instead of leveling up. I was inspired by the Dark Souls family of video games, where the souls you get for killing enemies is both the currency you use to level up and the currency you use to buy equipment. I quite liked that dynamic and thought it would translate nicely to D&D.

Oh, and grammar nitpick: treasure is found in hoards. Hordes are the creatures defending said treasure.

Ahh, I always get those mixed up!

 

[el-remmen]

Back when I used training rules in 1E/2E/3E days (which I based on a Dragon article), I allowed folks to advance a level (since we still used XP) but some class features required training to be able to use. So improvements in hit points, saves, a spell casting level you already have, etc. . . happened automatically - but new weapon proficiencies, feats, spell level, or niche class ability required training to get. It was a bit more granular of a system but we did things more granular back then. This led to a few interesting results, like a wizard who got his 4th level spell slots automatically (being able to use them with lower level spells - there was no upcasting back then) but could not cast 4th level spells until they'd trained. So there was still some improvement even if training was not immediately available or feasible.

 

[Lanefan]

Thanks! My thinking was that a “suitable instructor” for characters 11th level and up would likely not be a more experienced adventurer, but some kind of supernatural mentor. The idea is that the need for new instructors would be a driver of adventure, pushing the players to venture into more and more dangerous places in search of such instructors.

Doesn't having to adventure to find instructors kinda conflict with the idea of training being a downtime activity?

 

[Charlaquin]

Doesn't having to adventure to find instructors kinda conflict with the idea of training being a downtime activity?

Not necessarily. Reaching the City of Brass to find an Efreet to teach you sorcery (for example) could be an adventure, while training under said Efreet could be downtime.

 

[Lanefan]

Not necessarily. Reaching the City of Brass to find an Efreet to teach you sorcery (for example) could be an adventure, while training under said Efreet could be downtime.

I'm having a hard time imagining any time spent in the City of Brass to be downtime.

 

[TwoSix]

I'm having a hard time imagining any time spent in the City of Brass to be downtime.

Huh. The City of Brass is generally presented a pretty major planar metropolis. I’ve always assumed it sees a fair amount of non-fiery traffic.

I know in one of my recent games, the palace of an allied efreeti in the City of Brass was their “home away from home” for a pretty extended period of time after they did the efreeti a major favor.

Heck, the party necromancer trusted him enough to store his phylactery in the efreeti’s super-secure vault.

 

[Lanefan]

Huh. The City of Brass is generally presented a pretty major planar metropolis. I’ve always assumed it sees a fair amount of non-fiery traffic.

I know in one of my recent games, the palace of an allied efreeti in the City of Brass was their “home away from home” for a pretty extended period of time after they did the efreeti a major favor.

Heck, the party necromancer trusted him enough to store his phylactery in the efreeti’s super-secure vault.

Ah. I've always seen it as a place too hot for most PCs to survive (as in, take a point of damage every ten minutes) unless they have always-on heat resistance.

Not a place you want to hang aorund for too long.