Bloodclaw replacement?

[RickVigorous]

I agree here that Reckless was indeed nerfed (even by my standards of the word ). Though that wasn't part of the earlier conversation.

Regardless, Bloodclaw is still decent. And again, this is coming from a player who's character uses one. Decent bonus damage upon a confirmed hit once per fight is nothing to sneeze at.

In fact, I now feel less dirty for having one.

I tend to think that bloodclaw wasn't exactly overpowered in terms of balance, but it was overpowered compared to the other choices. That is, given a melee combatant, I'd almost always take a bloodclaw (or reckless, for one-handed weapon users) weapon over any other alternative. But the improved damage output I got from my bloodclaw/reckless weapons never made a combat too easy or made a certain monster a cakewalk.

In light of this, I think that bloodclaw and reckless needed to be toned down, but turning their powers into encounter powers wasn't the best way to do it. I'd have 1) made bloodclaw's bonus into a power bonus, 2) stipulated that both weapon powers only apply to the weapon in question, and 3) made bloodclaw deal +1 damage/hp lost and made reckless deal +1 damage/point of enhancement bonus.

All of this is moot, though, since the updates didn't take this approach. Bloodclaw and reckless are still perfectly decent but no longer must-haves; indeed, depending on your build, they're probably overshadowed by other alternatives. Which is good, but which could have happened without taking away a reliable at-will damage boost.

 

[keterys]

If they'd made bloodclaw and reckless into item bonuses, that would have probably helped a lot. Of course, works less well if the armbands are ever up for attention, but if you assume they exist it's a bit more dealable.

I will say, with all seriousness, that having observed Bloodclaw in heavy usage in LFR, that it most definitely made many combats far too easy, based on the number of people with the weapons. It also made there be a huge disparity between casters and melee, at least up to about 13th or so level.

 

[RickVigorous]

I can see how a whole party of melee types with bloodclaw/reckless weapons might be a bit too much. One ranger or tempest fighter can wield both and combine their powers, as well, which is fairly ridiculous. And I'll grant that they do create an imbalance between melee-based weapon users and implement users. That doesn't bug me as much, though, since melee combatants have a harder time getting at their chosen target and are on the front lines, which is riskier.

 

[Garthanos]

Compare that to a Battlecrazed Weapon, which increases your weapon damage by 1d6 when you are bloodied. No other restrictions except for "Axe or Heavy Blade". So:

Battlecrazed weapon even has something similar flavorwise to the bloodclaw
symbiote atleast for me...

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4t...llation-cutting-karmic-costs.html#post4989579

I think even now that it is nerfed I will give it away free... once per encounter you can make a heroic exertion to increase the potency of your attacks... not just melee I think sounds good to me.

 

[Akaiku]

Radiant is a +enhancement bonus damage again when doing radiant damage, which it can convert your attack into at will, it's kinda useful.

 

[keterys]

Radiant doesn't stack with iron armbands. Still useful, but... not nearly the same.

 

[Skallgrim]

Well, I would in particular look at the Avalanche hammer. It has good critical hit dice, a nice damage bonus on the charge, and knocks foes prone on a crit. It's not a no-brainer choice, but it is pretty darn good.

Depending on your power choices, you might like the Staggering Hammer more (if you have several slide powers).

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I tend to think that bloodclaw wasn't exactly overpowered in terms of balance, but it was overpowered compared to the other choices. That is, given a melee combatant, I'd almost always take a bloodclaw (or reckless, for one-handed weapon users) weapon over any other alternative. But the improved damage output I got from my bloodclaw/reckless weapons never made a combat too easy or made a certain monster a cakewalk.

It has made things too easy for us. You just need to know how to abuse it correctly. Especially against solos, 3 characters each with +3 bloodclaws who have the ability to make multi-attacks on their turns plus action points plus a Warlord to give one of them an extra turn of multi-attacks, the damage adds up very quickly.

We've probably made 12 attacks with Bloodclaw weapons before the Solo has gotten a chance to act. That's 108 points of damage just from the Bloodclaw. My character only did 1d10+11 points of damage without Bloodclaw so if it was him making all the attacks, that means he'd average 198 points of non-Bloodclaw damage during those attacks. That's over a 50% increase in damage.

It's also enough to increase the damage from severely hurting Elites around our level to killing them outright before they have a chance to act. It can be very overpowering.

 

[keterys]

I had two characters in LFR with Bloodclaw (it was literally the only +3 weapon option available for 4 levels)... one did 1d10+13 (+9 from bloodclaw to 1d10+22) and the other 1d12b2+9 (+9 from bloodclaw to 1d12b2+18), or effectively a 50% increase in damage for both of them. And I've been at tables where 4 of 5 people had Bloodclaw melee weapons. It actually completely unbalanced melee vs. not combat for months it felt like.