D&D (2024) Rogues plus Nick and Vex

[pukunui]

Hi all,

The group I play in will be switching to the 2024 rules sometime in September. Like @Charlaquin, I want to make my first 2024 character a rogue named Nikki Vexx.

We'll be starting at 1st level, and we're playing Dragon Heist, so we should make it to 5th level at least. I like the look of the new soulknife, but if I'm reading it right, the soulknife's psychic blades don't play nicely with TWF / Nick since they don't have the Light property and don't count as a specific melee weapon so you can't use the Nick property with them.

Basically, if I want to be able to use both Nick and Vex, I have to use two actual weapons, right? Seems like a shortsword for Vex plus a scimitar for Nick would be the optimal choice, since all the other Nick weapons only deal 1d4 dmg.

I would need to take a fighter dip to get the TWF fighting style feat to add Dex mod to the dmg of the off-hand attacks. Am I right in thinking that the TWF fighting style feat doesn't apply to the bonus action off-hand attack from the Dual Wielder feat?

I feel like "Nikki Vexx" would be a cool name for a swashbuckler, but the DM has said 2024 rules only for this first campaign, so I'll be limited to the four subclasses in the 2024 PHB. I'd probably go with Thief.

Alternatively, I could just go with a Dex-based fighter instead ...

Thoughts?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

A Dex-Based Fighter would absolutely work to make a good Nikki Vexx, though it seems more on-the-nose for her to be a Rogue (or a Bard, for that matter, if it was more about the name).

The only thing I'd say is that if you go Rogue, then I wouldn't worry so much about the dual-wielding part, other than the nice part of having a second chance to sneak attack if you miss with your main weapon. But you don't really need to bother with the fighter-dip or the feat.

But if you ARE keen on the Fighting Style and the Feat, then yeah. Make a Fighter.

 

[Charlaquin]

If it’s 2024 core subclasses only, I would definitely go with thief (though I agree Swashbuckler seems like a better fit). As for the Two Weapon Fighting style feat, it applies “when you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property,” and the Dual Wielder feat absolutely meets that criteria. As always, your DM has final say, but this has been confirmed to work by RAI.

That said, the reason to use Nick and Vex on a rogue is primarily to maximize your chances of landing a sneak attack. If you’re just looking to make the most of multiple attacks with Nick, Vex, Dual Wielder, and Two Weapon Fighting, fighter is probably going to be better at that than rogue.

 

[pukunui]

A Dex-Based Fighter would absolutely work to make a good Nikki Vexx, though it seems more on-the-nose for her to be a Rogue (or a Bard, for that matter, if it was more about the name).

Bards don't get Weapon Masteries, though, so I'd have to take a fighter dip there as well. It's a bit of a joke character, but the idea is that the name reflects the idea that that's how they fight (with the Nick and Vex masteries).

The only thing I'd say is that if you go Rogue, then I wouldn't worry so much about the dual-wielding part, other than the nice part of having a second chance to sneak attack if you miss with your main weapon. But you don't really need to bother with the fighter-dip or the feat.

But if you ARE keen on the Fighting Style and the Feat, then yeah. Make a Fighter.

I don't care as much about the Dual Wielder feat, although it does make TWF easier since you can draw/stow two weapons at a time.

If it’s 2024 core subclasses only, I would definitely go with thief (though I agree Swashbuckler seems like a better fit). As for the Two Weapon Fighting style feat, it applies “when you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property,” and the Dual Wielder feat absolutely meets that criteria. As always, your DM has final say, but this has been confirmed to work by RAI.

OK cool. Thanks.

That said, the reason to use Nick and Vex on a rogue is primarily to maximize your chances of landing a sneak attack. If you’re just looking to make the most of multiple attacks with Nick, Vex, Dual Wielder, and Two Weapon Fighting, fighter is probably going to be better at that than rogue.

I just want to play a character who uses Nick and Vex regularly to go along with the jokey name. I like playing rogues, but I could go with a fighter. A champion fighter would be fine. (I just played a heavy crossbow-wielding battle master fighter up to level 20, so I don't want to play another battle master just yet, even if I would be going with more of a melee build than a ranged one.)

Rogue and fighter are the only classes that allow you to use Nick and Vex from 1st level (since rangers and paladins don't get weapon masteries until 2nd level).

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Bards don't get Weapon Masteries, though, so I'd have to take a fighter dip there as well. It's a bit of a joke character, but the idea is that the name reflects the idea that that's how they fight (with the Nick and Vex masteries).

Yeah, I was speaking more to the "Rock Star" part of the name than if it would be an easy mechanical fit. That Glamor Bard Art makes me think of 80's rockers, and so does the name!

I don't care as much about the Dual Wielder feat, although it does make TWF easier since you can draw/stow two weapons at a time.

Yeah, though you can Draw 'em as part of your attacks with them (though not any bonus action attacks). Do I have that right?

I just want to play a character who uses Nick and Vex regularly to go along with the jokey name. I like playing rogues, but I could go with a fighter. A champion fighter would be fine. (I just played a heavy crossbow-wielding battle master fighter up to level 20, so I don't want to play another battle master just yet, even if I would be going with more of a melee build than a ranged one.)

I was thinking a Champion would work well. More attacks = more chances to Crit. I personally enjoy the simplicity of a Champion now and then. Lets me concentrate on other areas of play.

Rogue and fighter are the only classes that allow you to use Nick and Vex from 1st level (since rangers and paladins don't get weapon masteries until 2nd level).

@Charlaquin should build a Nikki Vexx as a Rogue, and you should do it as a Fighter - then you're not making the same Character!

 

[pukunui]

Yeah, I was speaking more to the "Rock Star" part of the name than if it would be an easy mechanical fit. That Glamor Bard Art makes me think of 80's rockers, and so does the name!

True. I do like that glamor bard art.

Yeah, though you can Draw 'em as part of your attacks with them (though not any bonus action attacks). Do I have that right?

Yes. I think the idea is that Dual Wielder lets you draw two weapons simultaneously, so you've got them both in your hands already, whereas otherwise you draw one with your first attack, then draw the other with your second. You could then only sheathe one of them with your free object interaction, whereas I think the feat would let you sheathe both again.

I was thinking a Champion would work well. More attacks = more chances to Crit. I personally enjoy the simplicity of a Champion now and then. Lets me concentrate on other areas of play.

Yeah, and I do like the new champion! If I knew we would be playing these characters past 5th level, I'd probably go fighter/rogue in more depth, but I'm not sure what the DM is planning, so I can't really think past 5th level at this point.

@Charlaquin should build a Nikki Vexx as a Rogue, and you should do it as a Fighter - then you're not making the same Character!

Yeah maybe! I do like being a bit of a skill monkey, but I could always make a fighter with the Charlatan background. I was thinking that Nikki Vexx would be their alias not their real name anyway.

 

[Charlaquin]

I was going to take the Entertainer background for the “rockstar” element of my Nikki

 

[pukunui]

I could also go with something like "Nick the Vex" (like Mack the Knife).

I could go for like a dirty street fighter angle. I could multiclass into monk. Attack with a shortsword to Vex the foe, Nick with the scimitar (with advantage) then bonus action unarmed strike. And at higher levels, the shortsword and scimitar damage dice would increase via Martial Arts. But I would need to start as either a fighter or a rogue, and the boosted damage from Martial Arts would only come into play from 6th level onwards (assuming fighter or rogue 1 / monk 5).

Could still be fun, though. I've got plenty of time to think about it!

From next week, I'll be able to start playing around with options in DDB as well.

 

[Charlaquin]

Nick the Vexing is pretty great!

 

[MarkB]