Bloodied While Dying - Confirmed!

[luide]

Having Dying without Bloodied was always a gamist answer. They are conditions, mechanically one condition supercedes the other, regardless of whether it makes sense.

And, I've never really understood where the first answer came from in the first place other than as a backhanded balancing factor for Consecrated Ground.

I ruled it that way simply because the massive amount of "healing if bloodied" powers.
But I guess I'll just have to do a houserule that changes all surgeless healing on bloodied characters (perhaps even healing with surges) to not work on Dying characters same way regen works.

Not big issue right now for me as the only Leader in group is currently Taclord.

 

[DracoSuave]

I ruled it that way simply because the massive amount of "healing if bloodied" powers.
But I guess I'll just have to do a houserule that changes all surgeless healing on bloodied characters (perhaps even healing with surges) to not work on Dying characters same way regen works.

Not big issue right now for me as the only Leader in group is currently Taclord.

Yeah... houseruling powers that don't exist in your group is always unnecessary unless the player's creating that character

 

[Jhaelen]

This should resolve the debate once and for all for the cleric power Consecrated Ground.

I admire your optimism!

Having Dying without Bloodied was always a gamist answer.
[...]
Having Dying and Bloodied was always a simulationist answer.

Ah, not really. I don't think deciding one way or another regarding this question puts you into one camp or the other.

I definitely don't consider myself a simulationist and have always used the latter interpretation.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

That's already how we played it. I wouldn't mind "errata" that would fix some of the healing powers that are problematic in this case.

I like one house rule suggested by someone else on these boards - only if you spend a surge do you reset your hit points to 0 before adding the healing. Of course, an even easier solution might be to have many of these powers grant regeneration. (But that doesn't work for "surgeless" at-will healing.)

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I think that was me... though I suggested that it be either spending a surge or counting as spending a surge being the only things that restart you at zero.

However, as one of my players point out, what does that mean for powers where another character spends a surge and you gain either a set amount or the other character's healing surge value... as neither meet "spend a surge or count as spending a surge" criteria that I suggested.

That said, easy enough to make it "spend a surge, count as spending a surge, or someone else spends a surge for you".

 

[eamon]

Is a dead creature considered bloodied?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I don't think so. A dead creature is no longer a "creature" but an object. At least, that's how it was in 3.x but I'd have to double check the 4E glossary.

 

[eriktheguy]

We should use this thread to display any wacky, random, or obviously wrong custserv replies that we have collected to date.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Having Dying without Bloodied was always a gamist answer. They are conditions, mechanically one condition supercedes the other, regardless of whether it makes sense.

Thats not really true though, for a couple of reasons...

Bloodied isn't a condition, so far as I can tell. At least, it doesn't appear in the list of conditions on page 277 in the PHB...

Also, you can have multiple conditions w/o one superceding the other. You can be both Prone and Immobile, or Marked and Dazed, or any other number of combinations.

The only time I am aware that a condition supercedes another is if a target is afflicted by the same condition from seperate sources.

 

[dvorak]

A couple things I noted from WotC's twitter that may have been glossed over:

@cordaxmike As a reminder though - regeneration ends when you hit 0 hps (Monster Manual 2 p282) 2:17 PM Jan 21st from TweetDeck in reply to cordaxmike

@cordaxmike RAW, no - the bloodied condition does not end when a character is dying. (official answer) 2:16 PM Jan 21st from TweetDeck in reply to cordaxmike

Regeneration explicitly doesn't work when you're at 0 or fewer HP. It's really just stuff like Consecrated Ground that this matters for.

(Wanted to give credit to SabreCat for their post)

These two tweets (whatever they call them) impressed me that they are paying attention to player's concerns and have excellent rule knowledge.

@cjthrasher If something is an official rules answer, we'll put (official answer) at the end. Your DM always has the final call. 2:03 PM Jan 21st from TweetDeck in reply to cjthrasher

I am in the boat that we as players ONLY need two sources by which to play a game ~ 1) The books should always be our first source (including the online Compendium)
2) The WotC website providing Errata/Updates of rules.

These other sources (twitter, customer service, 1-800) are nice however having more than two can dilute how we the players receive clarification to the rules.