Blowing up magic items, yes or no?
- Thread starter pseudo_hero
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Ridley's Cohort
First Post
I can see both sides of the issue.
On one hand, it is often desirable for a PC to have a signature item and not just some disposable crap they carry around. It just wouldn't seem right if someone were to break Inigo Montoya's sword just because it seemed tactically savvy.
On the other hand, the D&D rules assume magic items are just a bunch of disposable crap PCs and NPCs carry around. It is not just swords, but wands, staves, amulets, and holy symbols can all be effectively attacked in combat.
The reason PCs don't do that often is that magic is just a commodity like toilet paper that everyone uses. If all magic items were important signature items, like in some mythic traditions or stories, you wouldn't usually want your enemies stuff. I don't want my enemy's sword except as a trophy on my wall; I have my own. And I don't really want (or don't dare) to know what the Necromancer's Amulet does.
It is a conflict in game worldview. Really, your friend is playing D&D, some he needs to loosen up and play the game at hand as is with its quirks and splinters. But I do sympathize with his POV.
On one hand, it is often desirable for a PC to have a signature item and not just some disposable crap they carry around. It just wouldn't seem right if someone were to break Inigo Montoya's sword just because it seemed tactically savvy.
On the other hand, the D&D rules assume magic items are just a bunch of disposable crap PCs and NPCs carry around. It is not just swords, but wands, staves, amulets, and holy symbols can all be effectively attacked in combat.
The reason PCs don't do that often is that magic is just a commodity like toilet paper that everyone uses. If all magic items were important signature items, like in some mythic traditions or stories, you wouldn't usually want your enemies stuff. I don't want my enemy's sword except as a trophy on my wall; I have my own. And I don't really want (or don't dare) to know what the Necromancer's Amulet does.
It is a conflict in game worldview. Really, your friend is playing D&D, some he needs to loosen up and play the game at hand as is with its quirks and splinters. But I do sympathize with his POV.
novyet
First Post
As our dm has done this to us on a few occasions, I will say it sucks, but you can get something to replace it after awhile. The wizard was probably just showing contempt for the fighter by destroying his gear, and letting his minions handle the rest.
Still it's nowhere near as bad as being hit by a disjunction. That's a lot of gear you stand to lose.
Still it's nowhere near as bad as being hit by a disjunction. That's a lot of gear you stand to lose.
Tzarevitch
First Post
I'll try not to be crude, but it is annoying that some people can't remember that it is a game and sometimes you loose out.
Point him to the section in the rulebook that says; yes you can, "straight out destroy a character's magic items like that."
And while you are at it, tell him to stop whining like a child. If he wants another sword he can hire someone to make him one. If he can't commission another one, I suggest that he just deal with it and find something else to use or go sulk in the corner.
How old is your player anyway? He is behaving like 9 or so.
Tzarevitch
Point him to the section in the rulebook that says; yes you can, "straight out destroy a character's magic items like that."
And while you are at it, tell him to stop whining like a child. If he wants another sword he can hire someone to make him one. If he can't commission another one, I suggest that he just deal with it and find something else to use or go sulk in the corner.
How old is your player anyway? He is behaving like 9 or so.
Tzarevitch
Zerovoid
First Post
Tzarevitch said:
I'm not a big fan of destroying magic items. I can see why they should be destroyed sometimes, but it quite frankly just isn't fun. No one wants to lose their magic items.
Especially since in this situation the wizard could have just disintegrated the fighter instead. The wizard used a sub-optimal strategy. Someone said the wizard was just doing that to show disdain for the fighter. Well, I say that's really dumb. There's nothing I hate more than DM's who routinely stack the PC's up against enemies that they can't beat, and then pull all their punches.
Also, as someone pointed out, breaking items like that just screws up the wealth level. A +5 keen greatsword is worth 72k. Losing that is far worse than dying.
To each his own, I guess, but I really don't like having my items destroyed. A wand or some scrolls, sure, but losing a +5 sword, or a spellbook just isn't fun.
EOL
First Post
I think a lot of how this turns out depends on how you as a DM handle it. If you tell the player "Tough stop being a baby, I'm the DM I can do whatever I want." Then I think the player is going to react poorly. However if you're quick thinking and can work it into a cool story and make the campaign cooler because of it which should be easy good stories thrive on adversity.
For example if there was some unearthly gem left in on the ground after the disintigrate which became the component of his new sword I think the player would react favorably. YMMV
For example if there was some unearthly gem left in on the ground after the disintigrate which became the component of his new sword I think the player would react favorably. YMMV
As...ill considered as the players actions seem to have been, I still don't think it's that big of an over-reaction. When people get surprised they act well in a manner commensurate with being surprised.
That said, it was the DM's fault. His villain pulled punches, and they probably have in the past as well. Can players be blamed for expecting that? He should have just straight up cast the disintigration at the fighter.
Don't pull punches and your players won't expect you too. I don't like rolling the dice when I know they could prematurely end the adventure, but I make myself obey them. I really would rather have the players triumph, get the girl and live to see the happy ending. But for it to mean anything, there must be risk. Real chance. Sometimes they die, but mostly they overcome, even when by all rights they shouldn't. Trust them, trust thy self, and trust the dice. And if the dice are being brutal, find a cool way to describe it, and everyone seems happy. Well not exactly *happy*....but you get what I mean.
That said, it was the DM's fault. His villain pulled punches, and they probably have in the past as well. Can players be blamed for expecting that? He should have just straight up cast the disintigration at the fighter.
Don't pull punches and your players won't expect you too. I don't like rolling the dice when I know they could prematurely end the adventure, but I make myself obey them. I really would rather have the players triumph, get the girl and live to see the happy ending. But for it to mean anything, there must be risk. Real chance. Sometimes they die, but mostly they overcome, even when by all rights they shouldn't. Trust them, trust thy self, and trust the dice. And if the dice are being brutal, find a cool way to describe it, and everyone seems happy. Well not exactly *happy*....but you get what I mean.
Pulling punches? Screw that. I certainly wasn't in that fight, and most of you weren't there either, but I can come up with multiple reasons right off the bat for nuking the sword and not the fighter:
1) Charm Person/Monster -- Yes, I know you'll only have your backup weapon, the +1 Heavy Flail, but I'm sure the party rogue will be occupied for a few rounds nevertheless.
2) Interrogation -- Who are you, who do you work for, any chance you'd be interested in accepting a geas to go and kill the people who led you here in return for your life?
3) Loot -- He's wearing a ring of WHAT? I'll just dust his sword and then missile him to death. Because I WANT that ring.
4) Positioning -- Oh, please, tanklike warrior, please, whatever you do, don't come up and stand directly in front of me and pummel me with your much less effective backup weapon and incidently position yourself so that the party wizard can't catch me in a fireball without catching you too. (Weak? Yes. Possible? Also yes. If he's got Stoneskin and good Concentration, and some defense against getting grappled, having a Live Fighter in front of him providing unintentional cover could be valuable)
5) Actual Mercy -- My cause is truly just, and I would in sooth not slay these poor misguided souls when I know that my sweet rhetoric, combined with the hypnotic properties of the Gem of Ilyana, can sway them to my noble cause.
6) Megalomaniac -- I WANT HIM ALIVE, bwahahahaha! (This one is absurd and stupid, but it happens in so many movies that it's an official cliche, and as such, allowable)
Three fairly weak reasons, which only work if you've really established the guy's character beforehand, and three reasons that any PC should understand.
-Tacky
1) Charm Person/Monster -- Yes, I know you'll only have your backup weapon, the +1 Heavy Flail, but I'm sure the party rogue will be occupied for a few rounds nevertheless.
2) Interrogation -- Who are you, who do you work for, any chance you'd be interested in accepting a geas to go and kill the people who led you here in return for your life?
3) Loot -- He's wearing a ring of WHAT? I'll just dust his sword and then missile him to death. Because I WANT that ring.
4) Positioning -- Oh, please, tanklike warrior, please, whatever you do, don't come up and stand directly in front of me and pummel me with your much less effective backup weapon and incidently position yourself so that the party wizard can't catch me in a fireball without catching you too. (Weak? Yes. Possible? Also yes. If he's got Stoneskin and good Concentration, and some defense against getting grappled, having a Live Fighter in front of him providing unintentional cover could be valuable)
5) Actual Mercy -- My cause is truly just, and I would in sooth not slay these poor misguided souls when I know that my sweet rhetoric, combined with the hypnotic properties of the Gem of Ilyana, can sway them to my noble cause.
6) Megalomaniac -- I WANT HIM ALIVE, bwahahahaha! (This one is absurd and stupid, but it happens in so many movies that it's an official cliche, and as such, allowable)
Three fairly weak reasons, which only work if you've really established the guy's character beforehand, and three reasons that any PC should understand.
-Tacky
Will any PC be pissed if their +5 weapon gets destroyed - YES
What would be the DM's other option would be to kill the PC, which would probably make matters worse. I don't know how you handled the saving throw, takyris, but if you rolled it instead of the PC, I would be thinking you were destroying my weapon without letting me have a chance.
For a role playing opportunity, if this happened in my campaign, I'd let the character go into a rage even if they were not a barbarian, esp. considering the history of the weapon.
What would be the DM's other option would be to kill the PC, which would probably make matters worse. I don't know how you handled the saving throw, takyris, but if you rolled it instead of the PC, I would be thinking you were destroying my weapon without letting me have a chance.
For a role playing opportunity, if this happened in my campaign, I'd let the character go into a rage even if they were not a barbarian, esp. considering the history of the weapon.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
pseudo_hero said:
I think I would have been tempted to point out that it would have been much easier to distintegrate the fighter himself, and I'd be prepared to replay that way if he *really, really* wanted
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