Bluff to Distract - Hide - Re-enter Combat

[Mistwell]

How does this tactic work for a rogue with sneak attack? Assume you bluff to distract successfully, you hide in concealment or behind cover thereafter and are not spotted, and then you want to re-enter combat again. Do you re-roll initiative? Are your opponents flat-footed versus you? Do you strike as if invisible? Is there any advantage to doing this as an aid to sneak attacking at all?

And how does the movement work with that hide check? It says you can thereafter hide within I think 1' per rank in hide, is that a move action itself? Is there a negative to the hide roll? Is it combined with the hide action?

 

[Mistwell]

If my question was confusing, please let me know and I will clarify.

Or, if someone has a link to this discussion elsewhere, please let me know.

 

[Mistwell]

Okay surely, after three days, SOMEONE has an answer on this!

 

[Vrecknidj]

How does this tactic work for a rogue with sneak attack? Assume you bluff to distract successfully, you hide in concealment or behind cover thereafter and are not spotted, and then you want to re-enter combat again. Do you re-roll initiative?

Only it you have no allies that are also in combat, and your enemies somehow end up "out of initiative."

Are your opponents flat-footed versus you?

If you leave an encounter, and then encounter the same enemies again, perhaps (if the conditions are met), otherwise no.

Do you strike as if invisible?

It's probably better not to mix invisibility with concealment (even though some effects are similar).

Is there any advantage to doing this as an aid to sneak attacking at all?

I'm not sure what you mean.

And how does the movement work with that hide check? It says you can thereafter hide within I think 1' per rank in hide, is that a move action itself? Is there a negative to the hide roll? Is it combined with the hide action?

It's described in the PHB under the Hide skill (sorry about that answer, but I'm not sure what you're missing).

Dave

 

[Infiniti2000]

How does this tactic work for a rogue with sneak attack? Assume you bluff to distract successfully, you hide in concealment or behind cover thereafter and are not spotted, and then you want to re-enter combat again.

This is a leading question and it assumes you are doing what you suggest, which is not true. You do not "re-enter" combat unless the DM stops combat and restarts it. This is not unreasonable for the DM to do, depending on circumstances, but it should not be assumed.

Do you re-roll initiative? Are your opponents flat-footed versus you?

No to both unless you start a new encounter, but then EVERYONE rerolls initiative and everyone is flat-footed.

Do you strike as if invisible?

This is another debated question I think, but my answer is yes.

Is there any advantage to doing this as an aid to sneak attacking at all?

Sure, it might be the only method to sneak attack.

And how does the movement work with that hide check? It says you can thereafter hide within I think 1' per rank in hide, is that a move action itself? Is there a negative to the hide roll? Is it combined with the hide action?

This hiding requires a move action, but I would allow it as part of a move (not a 5ft-step of course). Thus, you could move up to ½ your speed at no penalty, etc.

 

[phindar]

If you're using Bluff to Distract so you can Hide, why not Bluff to Feint and catch your opponent flat-footed next round. You can even take Improved Feint to make it a move action, then you can Bluff/Sneak Attack every round.

 

[Mistwell]

Only it you have no allies that are also in combat, and your enemies somehow end up "out of initiative."If you leave an encounter, and then encounter the same enemies again, perhaps (if the conditions are met), otherwise no.

I think you're saying your answer is no, you do not act as if you left and then re-entered combat.

It's probably better not to mix invisibility with concealment (even though some effects are similar).

It's not concealment that is the issue. It's the status of being hidden. What impact does the status of being hidden from your foe have on combat. Concealment is relevant to how well your opponent can hit you. This is how well you can hit and damage your opponent. so if it is not invisible (and I have seen many others use those rules for this question), then what is it and how is it treated?

I'm not sure what you mean.It's described in the PHB under the Hide skill (sorry about that answer, but I'm not sure what you're missing).

Dave

Describe how it works, in detail.

 

[Mistwell]

If you're using Bluff to Distract so you can Hide, why not Bluff to Feint and catch your opponent flat-footed next round. You can even take Improved Feint to make it a move action, then you can Bluff/Sneak Attack every round.

Just because I could do it another way doesn't mean this way isn't also useful. There are many prestige classes, spells, and abilities that impact hiding. I am even considering a prestige class with a primary ability to bluff to create a diversion to hide as a move action. In addition, I might not want to strike the opponent next round, but maybe the round after that. Or I might want to cast a spell silently from hiding the next round. Regardless, I'm looking for discussion of the bluff to distract, hide, and then sneak attack from hiding rules.

 

[DragonShadow]

Unless I drastically misread the definition of flat-footed, you are considered flat-footed when you are unaware of your opponent.

That being said, if you use Bluff to distract your opponent, thereby giving yourself the opportunity to hide, and then successfully hide yourself, while your target may be aware of your existence and logically assume that you either fled or hid somewhere, he is still unaware of your current whereabouts.

Therefore, flat-footed.

(Run on sentence, please forgive me.)

That being said...why not just Feint, rather than Bluff/Hide?

Another question: are you using a ranged weapon to strike while hidden? Sniping is covered under the Hide skill, essentially allowing you the opportunity to hide, shoot somebody in the face, and remain hidden.

 

[Mistwell]

This is a leading question and it assumes you are doing what you suggest, which is not true. You do not "re-enter" combat unless the DM stops combat and restarts it. This is not unreasonable for the DM to do, depending on circumstances, but it should not be assumed.

Re-enter combat is not a rules-based phrase, it's just an English language phrase. I was in combat, and now I want to re-enter combat.

No to both unless you start a new encounter, but then EVERYONE rerolls initiative and everyone is flat-footed.

fair enough

This is another debated question I think, but my answer is yes.

What is the debate over it? What other alternative interpretation shave you seen?

Sure, it might be the only method to sneak attack.

But how does that work? Are you saying the opponent loses their dex bonus if you attack them from a place of hiding?

This hiding requires a move action, but I would allow it as part of a move (not a 5ft-step of course). Thus, you could move up to ½ your speed at no penalty, etc.

sounds right.