Bluffing Dead, Cleave Allowed?

[two]

This actually happened.

PC faced a bad guy who was way too mean for his roguey self.

After a vicious attack by the bad guy, the PC had very low hitpoints and "bluffs" like he's dead (drops as a free action).

First of all, is "playing dead" a bluff skill? What would oppose it, do you think? Sense Motive? Would you allow PC to bluff like he's taken a mortal blow? Would you allow a free action outside of initiative (like, for example, allowed by the Feather Fall spell) for the PC to drop like a sack of, well, stinky stuff?

Further, if the bad guy had cleave, which he did, and the bad guy thinks the rogue PC is dead, would you allow a cleave attack into another PC? (the last attack "dropped" the PC although the PC was still alive).

I allowed the cleave.

My bad? Or my good?

 

[jgsugden]

Technically, you may not 'drop' to prone voluntarily outside of your turn, so this is not possible under a strict reading of the rules.

It might be possible by readying an action so that when the opponent next hits you, you play dead. This might be interpreted to involve two actions (bluff attempt, dropping to prone), so it is a DM call.

If I were the DM, I would allow this as a use of bluff (opposed by a roll where the defender uses the better of his spot or sense motive skills). I would allow them to drop as a free action outside of combat as a response to the blow (but only as a response to the blow ... not whenever they felt like it).

Because the PC is trying to act like he was felled, I would allow the cleave off of the attack.

 

[CRGreathouse]

If I were the DM, I would allow this as a use of bluff (opposed by a roll where the defender uses the better of his spot or sense motive skills). I would allow them to drop as a free action outside of combat as a response to the blow (but only as a response to the blow ... not whenever they felt like it).

Because the PC is trying to act like he was felled, I would allow the cleave off of the attack.

I would rule the same way.

 

[Ziggy]

I would rule the same way.

So would I.

.Ziggy

 

[Keith]

I think it would be a Bluff-Sense Motive situation, too. With a bonus to anyone closely observing the alleged corpse, and ending for sure when they ran out of holding their breath time.
I would not allow the free action of dropping until the beginning of the turn of a PC or NPC, normally. Which would be fine for a PC, as you can always play NPCs as though they don’t know game mechanics. What if you wanted to fool a PC the same way, though (and it has to work both ways)? If the opponent doesn’t drop right away, but later, they basically know that it is a fake.
So, I think I agree with you that dropping in response to a blow should perhaps be a special free action like speaking. It isn’t in the rules as such, though.

The cleave feat does say “If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it)”, so I think it is fine to discover a not-so-typical example of an opponent dropping.

The free action not on initiative remains a house rule, though, I think.

Cheers

 

[DanMcS]

I'd allow it to be opposed by sense motive or spot, whichever they liked, with a bonus if they have high ranks in heal.

The possum-player doesn't always have to hold their breath, technically, since someone knocked unconscious in combat (negative hps) is still breathing.

 

[Keith]

Hmmm...doesn’t a readied action go just before the action that triggers it? I think that idea drifts out of the rules a bit, too. Besides, again using my “Can you fool a PC with it?” criteria, if the opponent who went before you last round suddenly does nothing ahead of you, and then drops like a rock when you hit them, you are going to guess that they are throwing it...An NPC opponent should get the same consideration. You need a mechanic that doesn’t otherwise affect in-game or out-of-game actions, really, in order for it to work as a fake.

Cheers

 

[Artoomis]

I'd run it as jgsugden suggested, too.

I'd also like to point our that any Rogue with high Bluff skill should consider this survival technique and should probably also have some sort of small, easily breakable glass (or similar) vial with red, blood-like liquid (maybe even animal blood, if air-tight) to smash against himself to make it look even more realistic.

 

[Coredump]

hehehehe....

And to play along... what if the rogue had one of the 'instant stand' type feats. Once the BBEG turned to face someone else, he could jump up, and get a whole bunch of sneak attacks.

SA because he would then be flanking.

Though, in any case, I would probably give him one SA attack since he was 'concealed' as a corpse.

 

[jgsugden]

Hmmm...doesn’t a readied action go just before the action that triggers it?

Cheers

Yes. Of course, you can ready an action to be triggered on the moment after you are attacked, but before the next attack or action. This would place your action directly after the attack lands.