Bluffing PCs

[kk14]

Is it possible to bluff PCs? or is it all by the DM? can a PC bluff or diplomacy another PC into not attacking, or otherwise changing their courses of action? My friend says that PCs can do whatever they want, and so cannot be bluffed either by each other or by the NPCs.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

You can bluff them with a combat feint.

Using the "bluff skill" against a PC you tell them the lie first - and SECRETLY roll sense motive checks. (personally, I take 10 and make the PC's take 10 as well, but don't tell them that so a meatagamer doesn't even see dice rolling)

If they make the sense motive - you tell them the PC gets a sense that the NPC is being manipulative.

You CANNOT typically use diplomacy on PC's

 

[Rystil Arden]

You can Bluff them by telling anyone who asks that the NPC seems completely honest and (INSERT FAKE EMOTION THAT MAKES NPC SEEM MORE TRUSTWORTHY). However, the PCs still have a final choice to say "Okay, I still don't trust that NPC. Charge!!!!"

 

[Dross]

Is it possible to bluff PCs? or is it all by the DM? can a PC bluff or diplomacy another PC into not attacking, or otherwise changing their courses of action? My friend says that PCs can do whatever they want, and so cannot be bluffed either by each other or by the NPCs.

Diplomancy cannot be used against a PC, they are free to act as they choose (cannot be influenced). To negotiate a treaty in their favour against the PC's diplomancy I'd allow (an interpretaion of it not being used "against" the PC's).

There is nothing rules wise that says a PC cannot be bluffed, however they can still do what they like (within certain limits).

"I'm no threat to you" Bluff: If NPC wins, NPC appears harmless/threatless, but PC can still do as they please.
Trustworthy: If NPC wins, appears trustworthy but PC can still do as they please
Feinting in Combat: Go as per the rules, PCs can be feinted
Creating a Diversion to Hide: Go as per the rules, PCs can be diverted.
Delivering a Secret Message: Go as per the rules, PCs can be oblivious or missunderstand.

Having said that, the player should still portray the PC in a consistent way. If they don't have any reason to beleive that someone is out to get them, they should act accordingly.

 

[moritheil]

Is it possible to bluff PCs? or is it all by the DM? can a PC bluff or diplomacy another PC into not attacking, or otherwise changing their courses of action? My friend says that PCs can do whatever they want, and so cannot be bluffed either by each other or by the NPCs.

Depends on your style of play. If you play that whatever the rules dictate, the players must abide by, a DM who runs bluff/diplomacy NPCs can have the PCs believing all sorts of inconvenient things. Most people don't like to play that way, though, which results in statements like this:

Diplomancy cannot be used against a PC.

Generally you should just try to RP someone with huge ranks in Diplomacy as being very reasonable and very friendly.

 

[Nail]

Try reading the text of the Diplomacy skill.

You can change the attitudes of others (nonplayer characters) with a successful Diplomacy check...

Diplomacy "doesn't work" on PCs (generally). Bluff is like Diplomacy, so you could assume the same rule.

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

Traditionally PCs can't be bluffed/diplomacied. Personally I feel that this is due to too much metagamming/lack of RPing.

The groups I have always played w/ allowed NPCs and PCs to bluff/diplomacy PCs. Usually, the winner of the roll 'dictates' how PCs reacts; however, a PC is allowed to contridict the roll under the following reason:
1) PC's preestablished pattern of behavior that would be contridictary the results of the roll.
2) PC provides example(s) for why he/she should contridict the results of the roll. (ie, NPC/PC has lied to and/or stolen from PC one or more times)
3) PC has expressed a distrust, etc. of the NPC/PC prior of the roll and the difference between rolls is minor (5 or less).

 

[Vysirez]

I don't see any reason you couldn't bluff a PC. Bluff doesnt have the same specification as diplomacy that it doesnt work on PCs. However I would only allow a sucessfull bluff to be a convincing lie, rather then making the PC do anything. Basically the NPC tells it's lie, you roll bluff vs sense motive for the PC and if the PC wins you inform him that he thinks the NPC is being dishonest somehow. The more the PC wins the more info I would give.

The best way to view the situation as a PC using Sense motive to see the lie, rather then the NPC bluffing the PC. So the NPC tells his lie, and a PC uses Sense Motive oppsoed by Bluff to see if he can tell it's a lie. So rather the the PC being the Actee, he's the Actor. If that makes sense.

 

[irdeggman]

I think you can bluff a PC. Bluff (except for faint in combat) doesn't have an automatic action associated with it (unlike diplomacy where the "attitude" can be changed).

Best you get is that "it seems like he is trustworthy (ot totally) and telling you the truth". What the PC does with that information is up to the player though.

 

[Raspen]

we openly use bluff on each other all the time it makes the game much much more fun..

example: When my duelest *who isnt at all good at fighting* retells the story on what happend to a PC that wasnt involved... I lie LIE lie and well Lie some more and even if the other PC involved are like NO that isnt how it was my bluff is so high i come out looking like a hero.

thats just one example of the meny funny ways we use it and over all i think that it betters the game as long as your Gamers are able to RP the fact that thier chr just didnt find out it was a lie