Bo9S - Initiator Level of multi class character

[jaults]

I just want to make sure I have this right: A Ftr2/Crusader 8 counts as a Crusader 9 for Initiator level, specifically for purposes of determining the highest level maneuvers he can learn, right? I am looking at the bottom of the first column, page 39, and the top of the second column, same page.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[hong]

Correct. It's Iron Heroes all over again!

 

[Nifft]

I've got some questions about Initiator Level and readying maneuvers for characters who have multi-classed as two different Martial Adept base classes.

Doug: Warblade 4 / Swordsage 8
Warblade IL = 8
Swordsage IL = 10

Q1: ToB p. 38 says "you must choose a selection of readied maneuvers from all the maneuvers you know". Can Doug ready his Swordsage maneuvers in Warblade "slots"?

Q2: Can Doug ready maneuvers he could have known as a Warblade, but would be beyond his Warblade IL? For example, if Doug chose a 5th level Diamond Mind maneuver for his 8th level of Swordsage, could he ready it in a Warblade slot?

Q3: Can Doug ready the same maneuver twice, if he does so once in a Warblade "slot" and once in a Swordsage "slot"?

Thanks, -- N

 

[Sejs]

Q1: ToB p. 38 says "you must choose a selection of readied maneuvers from all the maneuvers you know". Can Doug ready his Swordsage maneuvers in Warblade "slots"?

I'd say no. There are some maneuvers that are available to one that arn't available to others. Much like a Wiz/Sorc I'd say keep the pools seperate, if you want to use an ability with both pools, you'd have to take it with both classes.

Q2: Can Doug ready maneuvers he could have known as a Warblade, but would be beyond his Warblade IL? For example, if Doug chose a 5th level Diamond Mind maneuver for his 8th level of Swordsage, could he ready it in a Warblade slot?

Again, I'd say no. Keep them seperate. Pre-empts this sort of issue.

Q3: Can Doug ready the same maneuver twice, if he does so once in a Warblade "slot" and once in a Swordsage "slot"?

Yup. If Doug knows, say, Moment of Perfect Mind both as a Warblade and a Swordsage, then he could ready the maneuver twice - one with each class's pool.

 

[Nifft]

Doug now takes levels in a Prestige Class (say, Master of the Nine).

Doug adds his Prestige Class level to both of his Initiator Levels. (This is spelled out.) He adds his extra readied maneuvers to one of his previous initiator slots. (This is also spelled out.)

Q4: In which initiator "slots" can Doug ready the maneuvers he learned as a result of the prestige class?


Doug now takes the feat Martial Study to learn a maneuver.

Q5: In which initiator "slots" can Doug ready the maneuvers he learned as a result of the feat?


Thanks, -- N

 

[jaults]

Cool, thanks...

Jason

 

[Dracomeander]

Doug now takes levels in a Prestige Class (say, Master of the Nine).

Doug adds his Prestige Class level to both of his Initiator Levels. (This is spelled out.) He adds his extra readied maneuvers to one of his previous initiator slots. (This is also spelled out.)

Q4: In which initiator "slots" can Doug ready the maneuvers he learned as a result of the prestige class?


Doug now takes the feat Martial Study to learn a maneuver.

Q5: In which initiator "slots" can Doug ready the maneuvers he learned as a result of the feat?


Thanks, -- N

For Q4:
P. 96 of Bo9S spells out pretty plainly that the maneuvers known and readied must be chosen to apply to one of the martial adept classes when the ability is first gained.

The initiator boost applies to both adept classes, but the maneuvers known and readied must be allocated to one adept class or the other at the time it is learned/gained.

For Q5:
They did not spell it out quite as clearly. They do point out that the maneuver is a once per encounter ability that never gains a recovery method if it is learned before gaining a martial adept class, but they don't mention what to do when taking Martial Study after gaining multiple adept classes.

I would use the same ruling as used for gaining maneuvers from a prestige class.

 

[hong]

Yup. If Doug knows, say, Moment of Perfect Mind both as a Warblade and a Swordsage, then he could ready the maneuver twice - one with each class's pool.

I wouldn't allow that, going by the same principle (it doesn't seem to be actually written down) that says you can't ready the same maneuver twice for a single class. Going to two classes shouldn't let people negate that principle.

 

[Nail]

I wouldn't allow that, going by the same principle (it doesn't seem to be actually written down) that says you can't ready the same maneuver twice for a single class. Going to two classes shouldn't let people negate that principle.

I agree that readying the same manuever twice seems to be against the intent of the FAQ. For What That's Worth.

[EDIT-Errr...where is that "written down", anyway? It's not in the FAQ, and there are no errata.]

 

[Zaruthustran]

Warblades should start as fighters

I just want to make sure I have this right: A Ftr2/Crusader 8 counts as a Crusader 9 for Initiator level, specifically for purposes of determining the highest level maneuvers he can learn, right? I am looking at the bottom of the first column, page 39, and the top of the second column, same page.

Thanks,
Jason

Yeah. That's why if you want to play a Warblade, you should take 4 levels of Fighter first. That way, at Warblade 1 all three of your maneuvers will be 2nd level. Compare to a Warblade 5, which will have more maneuvers *total*, but fewer 2nd level maneuvers.

Starting with Ftr 4 also is better for your stances.

What do you lose?

Total number of maneuvers (though you're only losing the low-level maneuvers)
Speed of acquisition of Warblade class abilities (though the abilities are pretty lame; certainly not better than 3 feats & Wep Spec access)
Hit points (4d10 instead of 4d12)