Bo9s multiclassing rules, balanced?

[Arabesu]

My Gm complains that the Bo9s multiclassing rules are too strong, since they allow a PC to obtain a high level maneuver at first level. For example, a Fighter 8/Swordsage 1 could start with the equivilent of 3rd level spells. His argument is that a F8/ sorceror 1 would only have 1st level spells, so clearly the Bo9s multiclassing rules are broken because a one level dip can get you the equivelent of fireball every encounter.

Now I'm not a negotiator or a diplomat or a debator, so I don't really know how to argue this position, but it seems like they aren't that bad. Does anyone have any good reasons/explanations that I can take back and say "this is why its not broken."

So far the only thing I can come up with is that while you may start out with higher level effects, most of the maneuvers require a regular hit as opposed to spells which typically require only a touch attack, affect an area, or are targeted affects. So while the fireball like affect that does 6d6 damage to an area with a reflex for half appears at first glance is as powerful as fireball, in actuality there are subtle outs that opponents get that balance it: you have to hit a target (not always a foregone conclusion since the gap between touch AC and regular AC widens as you go up in level), the radius/placement is suboptimal for hitting the maximum number of targets, and there is a relatively low dice cap.

What are some other rationales for why the multiclassing rules are fair?

 

[Sejs]

The fact that you could take maneuvers of almost the same potency without having to have levels in a martial initiate class AT ALL.


A Fighter (10) can take the Martial Study feat and learn that same fireball-esque maneuver without having to deal with multiclassing or worry about favoured class.

 

[Crothian]

It seems the good maneuvers all have prerequisites. And really does any 8th level character start taking levels in a spellcasting class that late? One could easily argue that doing that is very underpowered.

 

[Diirk]

You may be able to fireball at 1st sword sage level, but fact remains you're still a 9th level character with 3rd level 'spells'. Given the nature of Tome of Battle abilities (ie. how most of them don't scale at all) its not too much of an issue.

 

[Sejs]

Additionally, if you want to draw analogy, point out that with one level of Barbarian, using the Whirling Frenzy rage variant you could effectively be running around with haste and bull's strength for several rounds a day.

Or that a level of rogue would let you apply a dice of sneak attack damage pretty much any time you're in most fights. Plus you'd walk away with trapfinding.

 

[moritheil]

a one level dip can get you the equivelent of fireball every encounter.

That's not an accurate statement. Stating that you get a fireball every encounter would imply that it would scale for damage and otherwise benefit from caster level as a 3rd-level spell would. While it does ignore SR, the damage doesn't scale, and it's not usable with metamagic feats (which is the real use of 3rd level spells at higher levels.)

 

[FireLance]

The Bo9S multiclassing rules do present a paradigm shift in that they rely heavily on the idea that class abilities can be enhanced by levels in other classes.

To a lesser extent, this idea is present in even the core rules, but the examples are not so stark: an 8th-level ranger with maxed-out Search who takes a level in rogue is better at finding traps than a 1st-level rogue could be, for example. Similarly, an 8th-level barbarian who takes a level in fighter could use his fighter bonus feat to take Improved Critical, something that a 1st-level fighter could not do.

Sometimes, I think that the 3e multiclassing rules were such an improvement over the multiclassing rules in previous editions that some people have difficulty accepting the idea that they can be improved further. Perhaps one way to get your DM to re-think his position is to ask him what he thinks a 9th-level character (regardless of class) should be capable of, and whether a Fighter 8/Sorcerer 1 or a Fighter 8/Swordsage 1 is closer to that standard.