Yeah, same character. The cleric actually bought 5 scrolls of true res at Magepoint before the start of the session.kibbitz said:Way past bedtime, so I skimmed through it quickly. Still, this definitely rated as awesome. Pity about the Barb dying repeatedly, but well, better him than youThough was the eldritch knight you mentioned at the finale with Kyuss the same guy as the one who was turned into undead? If so, how was he restored?
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
[Bo9S] Notes on swordsage in play
- Thread starter hong
- Start date
My fiendish plan is succeeding!Olive said:
And just for posterity, here's Padma's statblock as of just before the Kyuss fight.
Padma Illindra [redux]
Female human swordsage 18/warblade 2
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +15; Senses Listen +29, Spot +8
Languages Common, Old Suloise
________________________________________
AC 42, touch 31, flat-footed 34
(Dex +7, Wis +7, armor +8, deflection +5, natural armor +3, insight +1, dodge +1)
hp 220 (20 HD)
Immune grappling
Resist improved evasion, uncanny dodge, +4 bonus to saves against necromantic and death effects
Fort +24, Ref +26, Will +25
________________________________________
Speed 30 ft
Melee Sakhalandra (Spiritreaver) +29/+24/+19 (1d10+15/19–20) or luck rapier +24/+19/+14 (1d6+8/18–20)
Base Atk +15; Grp +22
Atk Options insightful strike (Diamond Mind, Tiger Claw), martial discipline weapon (Diamond Mind, Tiger Claw), Blade Meditation (Diamond Mind), Power Attack, Acrobatic Strike, boots of speed, amulet of finding the center 1/encounter, sacred scabbard 3/day
Combat Gear 2 flasks universal solvent, 2 potions of cure light wounds
________________________________________
Swordsage Maneuvers and Stances Known (IL 19th, 11 prepared):
Stances — stance of clarity (1st), child of shadow (1st), assassin’s stance (3rd), leaping dragon stance (5th), balance on the sky (8th)
Strikes — shadow blade technique (1st), emerald razor (2nd), insightful strike (3rd), death from above (4th), bloodletting strike (DC 22) (5th), pouncing charge (5th), rabid bear strike (6th), greater insightful strike (6th), swooping dragon strike (7th), diamond nightmare blade (8th), five-shadow creeping ice enervation strike (DC 26) (9th), time stands still (9th)
Boosts — cloak of deception (2nd), shadow stride (5th), moment of alacrity (6th), quicksilver motion (7th), shadow blink (7th), raging mongoose (8th)
Counters — moment of perfect mind (1st), action before thought (2nd), mind over body (3rd), one with shadow (8th), diamond defense (8th)
Disciplines: Diamond Mind, Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw
Warblade Maneuvers and Stances Known (IL 11th, 3 prepared):Strikes — shadow blade technique (1st), emerald razor (2nd), insightful strike (3rd), death from above (4th), bloodletting strike (DC 22) (5th), pouncing charge (5th), rabid bear strike (6th), greater insightful strike (6th), swooping dragon strike (7th), diamond nightmare blade (8th), five-shadow creeping ice enervation strike (DC 26) (9th), time stands still (9th)
Boosts — cloak of deception (2nd), shadow stride (5th), moment of alacrity (6th), quicksilver motion (7th), shadow blink (7th), raging mongoose (8th)
Counters — moment of perfect mind (1st), action before thought (2nd), mind over body (3rd), one with shadow (8th), diamond defense (8th)
Disciplines: Diamond Mind, Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw
Stances — punishing stance (1st)
Strikes — disarming strike (2nd)
Boosts — sudden leap (1st)
Counters — iron heart surge (3rd), iron heart focus (5th)
Disciplines: Iron Heart, Tiger Claw
________________________________________Strikes — disarming strike (2nd)
Boosts — sudden leap (1st)
Counters — iron heart surge (3rd), iron heart focus (5th)
Disciplines: Iron Heart, Tiger Claw
Abilities Str 22*, Dex 25*, Con 22*, Int 12, Wis 24*, Cha 13
SQ battle clarity (Reflex saves), defensive stance (Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw), weapon aptitude, freedom of movement
Feats Dodge, Great Fortitude, Blade Meditation (Diamond Mind), Unnerving Calm, Power Attack, Adaptive Style, Acrobatic Strike, Weapon Focus (rapier, shortspear, trident, bastard sword), Improved Initiative
Skills Concentration +41, Balance +28, Jump +30, Tumble +31, Knowledge (martial lore) +23, Listen +29, Sense Motive +29, Intimidate +25, Diplomacy +8
Possessions combat gear plus Sakhalandra (Spiritreaver), luck rapier, celestial armor, gloves of Dexterity +6, amulet of finding the center +6, shirt of Constitution +6, belt of giant Strength +6, bracers of natural armor +3, cloak of resistance +5, headband of Concentration +10, ring of protection +5, ring of freedom of movement, boots of speed, dusty rose ioun stone, pale green ioun stone, handy haversack, greater crystal of lifekeeping, lesser crystal of return, sacred scabbard, 330,413 gp
* +2 inherent bonuses to Strength, Dexterity, Constitution and Wisdom.
Amulet of finding the center: The emerald at the center of this dark, three-tined amulet sparkles with motes of green light. Its wearer gains a continuous +6 enhancement bonus to Wisdom. Once per encounter, it grants its wearer the ability to make their next melee attack as a melee touch attack. Activating this ability requires a standard action, separate from the attack itself. Price 39,000 gp.
Sakhalandra (Spiritreaver): This +5 ghost touch, martial discipline, cold iron bastard sword is attuned to the arts of the Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind. Once per day, it grants its wielder the benefit of a quickened true strike. Price 160,370 gp.
Add another level and 85,000 gp after defeating Kyuss. WTF am I going to do with 415,000 gp?!
Satori
First Post
After looking at your statblock, I'm both amazed and very pleased.
Let me explain.
After reading through your posts, I was continually impressed with what appeared to be very meaty and substantial numbers and results during combat. I immediately assumed that you munchkined the hell out of your PC and essentially went for a "Crash Test".
However, after looking at your character, I can't help but notice that the PC isn't exactly "Optimized" by most "Number Crunch" standards.
No Shadowblade, no Stormguard Warrior cheese, no White Raven obnoxiousness, only a smattering of Warblade (arguably broken), no Jade Phoenix Mage, no Shadow Sun Ninja with Constitution Damage regeneration for unlimited negative levels, no Diamond Mind combined with Iaijutsu Master, no Kukri Bloodclaw Master cheese with a "Bag of Rats" for critical hit insanity...
In fact, it seems like you avoided a large number of the "MUST HAVE" crunch feats for melee characters...
...and you still survived, had fun, contributed greatly, and dished out respectable numbers.
I think I just had an RP-gasm.
...
Ok, I'm done.
If I'm to believe this...then the ToB:Bo9S essentially offers a way for a PC to not only indulge in characterization at the expense of functionality...but to do so AND remain a valid and integral part of the group as well!
I think I might need a few more moments.
Let me explain.
After reading through your posts, I was continually impressed with what appeared to be very meaty and substantial numbers and results during combat. I immediately assumed that you munchkined the hell out of your PC and essentially went for a "Crash Test".
However, after looking at your character, I can't help but notice that the PC isn't exactly "Optimized" by most "Number Crunch" standards.
No Shadowblade, no Stormguard Warrior cheese, no White Raven obnoxiousness, only a smattering of Warblade (arguably broken), no Jade Phoenix Mage, no Shadow Sun Ninja with Constitution Damage regeneration for unlimited negative levels, no Diamond Mind combined with Iaijutsu Master, no Kukri Bloodclaw Master cheese with a "Bag of Rats" for critical hit insanity...
In fact, it seems like you avoided a large number of the "MUST HAVE" crunch feats for melee characters...
...and you still survived, had fun, contributed greatly, and dished out respectable numbers.
I think I just had an RP-gasm.
...
Ok, I'm done.
If I'm to believe this...then the ToB:Bo9S essentially offers a way for a PC to not only indulge in characterization at the expense of functionality...but to do so AND remain a valid and integral part of the group as well!
I think I might need a few more moments.
Arkhandus
First Post
Cool stuff to read about, hong. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us all!
After reading this thread, and seeing a friend play a swordsage in a brief 1st-4th level mini-campaign, I decided to try out a Tome of Battle character when we met for D&D again this Sunday. The previous DM moved out of town, so a different DM took over, the guy who played the swordsage in that game (with my halfling copper-dragon shaman, another player's half-orc barbarian, and another guy's human rogue). He decided to start a separate game, so we started making new characters, and he set the level to 10th and a 42-point-buy, max HP and 49,000 GP to spend. He's going to make things tough, using the same point buy and max HP setup for NPCs.
So I decided to try playing a swordsage this time. I know warblade would likely be too cheesy, and one player's already going to be a barbarian anyway, so I'm avoiding that potential cheese factory. Likewise with regards to the more abusive maneuvers and feats, far as I know, I'll avoid them if I can spot them.
Anyway, since I only have access to the ToB while I'm at the Sunday game with the DM who owns a copy, I wanted to ask for a bit of advice/assistance. Just a bit. Hong, if ya think I should move this query to a separate thread, just say the word.
[sblock]My Halfling Copper-Dragon Shaman 4 is being replaced with a Half-Giant (LA +1 race) Swordsage 5/Psychic Warrior 4. Probably going to be true neutral. Total ability scores from the point-buy, race, leveling, and items are Str 26 (+8), Dex 12 (+1), Con 16 (+3), Int 10 (+0), Wis 18 (+4), and Cha 10 (+0). HP 99, standard AC 20, touch AC 15, flat-footed AC 19, initiative +3, speed 30 ft., BAB +6/+1. I still need to name the guy, probably going to give him a background on Athas if there's any way he could've been astrally or ethereally transported away from there by another fellow....
Other PCs are a Human Wizard (probably from Oerth), a Sun Elf Swashbuckler (probably from Faerun), an Orc Barbarian (dunno where from), a Human (I think?) Warmage/Healer/Mystic Theurge (probably from Faerun), and a Goblin Rogue (dunno where from, but he's a siege engineer, tinker, and alchemist; just a rogue for the skill points, and he doesn't want to be relying on magic artifice).
For my PC, I may or may not want to take a prestige class from Book of Nine Swords, Expanded Psionics Handbook, or Complete Psionic. All I'm sure of right now is that I'd really like a few more psionic feats/powers at some point and I intend to focus on stuff from the Book of Nine Swords. Just about any 3.5 WotC book is allowed in the campaign, except Unearthed Arcana, Magic of Incarnum, and probably just a few other exceptions.
My feats at present are Adaptive Style, Psionic Weapon (PsyWar1 bonus feat), Vital Recovery, Instant Clarity (PsyWar2 bonus feat, from Bo9S), Martial Study (Desert Wind style - Burning Brand learned - Tumble permanent class skill), and Deep Impact. Not sure yet if I should replace Martial Study (my 6th-level feat) with something else or just change the style/maneuver. I may swap Instant Clarity (Bo9S psionic feat) with Psionic Meditation if I can't make Instant Clarity work well with my maneuvers, since I may need to regain my psionic focus in battle more often than 3 times per day to remain effective (though the move action to do so at-will through PM may cut into my effectiveness or not).
Main abilities so far are Powerful Build, Naturally Psionic, Stomp psi-like ability, two bonus feats, swordsage AC Bonus (Wis), Quick to Act (+2 initiative), Discipline Focus (undetermined as of yet), a few psionic powers, 13 power points, and a handful of martial maneuvers/stances. Intended disciplines for use are Desert Wind (likely secondary), Diamond Mind (maybe primary), Setting Sun (not sure), and Stone Dragon (maybe primary). I haven't looked at the other Swordsage disciplines yet except Shadowhand, which isn't likely to fit my character well so probably gonna ignore it.
Armed with a keen +1 large greatsword of ghost touch (save myself a feat and be able to hit annoying spirit/ether critters), a +1 large composite longbow (+8 Strength to damage, my backup since I can't fly under my own power), an ordinary large spiked gauntlet (in case I'm grappled or somesuch), a +1 mithril shirt of light fortification (...I fear the crits this DM may unleash), a +4 belt of giant's strength (I'm one of the 2 frontline PCs), a +2 periapt of wisdom (Will saves are important, my swordsage AC needs it, and my skills need it), a +1 cloak of resistance (obvious reasons), and a paltry few basic supplies. If I really need some more cash for an item, I may swap out the Keen quality on my greatsword, and instead take the Ghost Strike psionic feat in place of Martial Study.
I can't remember if using Instant Clarity to regain Psionic Focus is a free action, or a swift action, and I couldn't figure out or remember if it only works at the end of the maneuver it is used with. I was thinking about manifesting Psionic Lion's Charge and then using the 2nd or 3rd level Desert Wind boost (I forget its name) that grants an extra attack during a full-attack action (I recall the maneuver's duration being 'until end of turn'), but with -2 on the attack rolls (essentially like a melee version of Rapid Shot). Now I can't remember either if Instant Clarity is strictly limited to once per round (I do know it's limited to 3 uses per day). Psionic Lion's Charge is a swift action to manifest, and I don't recall if that Desert Wind maneuver is also a swift action or not; if they're both swifts, then I can't combine them in one turn.
I basically wanted to do this: First round of combat, use the Desert Wind maneuver I can't recall the name of; charge at an enemy; manifest Psionic Lion's Charge; attack once, expend Psionic Focus for Psionic Weapon's extra damage; use Instant Clarity to regain Psionic Focus; make my iterative attack, expending Psionic Focus again for Deep Impact to make it a touch attack; use Instant Clarity again to regain PF; make my extra attack from the maneuver, expend PF again for Psionic Weapon; use Instant Clarity again to regain PF for use next round.
Basically go all-out to pulverize a Big Bad in one round, or at least seriously maim them, and generally draw the remaining foes' attention to me rather than the less-threatening (and more fragile) casters, rogue, and swashbuckler. Besides, I got Vital Recovery and Adaptable Style to help myself heal and recover maneuvers quickly, at least once per encounter, and one of the party's casters is a Healer/Warmage/Mystic Theurge (yes, a logic-breaking combo of pacifistic support and raw destruction) anyway. I am guessing that my first conceived tactic is probably not viable in the rules, but I don't have the Book of Nine Swords myself to check now that I'm home.
An alternative tactic I'm considering is Dissolving Weapon (+4d6 acid on next attack) manifested in the round before I attack, then charging in and using a Strike maneuver of some sort (maybe Burning Brand?) in combination with that acid damage and Psionic Weapon (+2d6 damage). But I'm not sure it'll be worthwhile, considering the standard action manifestation time of Dissolving Weapon.
If both that and Psionic Lion's Charge prove ineffective combos with my Swordsage maneuvers, I may just go with Concealing Amorpha as my 2nd-level power or just lower my Psychic Warrior level to 2nd while boosting my Swordsage level to 7th. But I really wanted to give 3.5 psionics a try while I'm actually playing a 3.5 game for a change, so I'm hoping I can make an effective combo of psi + martial strikes/boosts.
For my 1st-level powers I'm going with Expansion and two other powers from amongst Biofeedback, Force Screen, Grip of Iron, Defensive Precognition, Offensive Precognition, and Offensive Prescience. Animal Affinity is of little use to me, so I'm not considering it; +2 AC from Dex or Wis wouldn't help much, and I don't have the manifester level to augment it enough for +4 from boosting both scores. Most likely I'm going to go with Force Screen and Offensive Prescience, but I'm not sure. Considering my PC is a very muscular half-giant and I'll be using Expansion, my grapple check modifier will already be +18 to +22, so Grip of Iron's +4 may be a waste, but combined with a Stone Dragon maneuver or two my PC might be a very effective grappler, but I dunno (I don't have the feats to spare for Improved Unarmed Strke or Improved Grapple, most likely, so I'd likely suffer AoOs and take some punishment whenever I start a grapple).
My AC is usually going to suck or be mediocre (at present, it looks like I'll have AC 20 most of the time; +5 from a mithril shirt of light fortification, +1 Dex, +4 Wis as a Swordsage), especially if I charge into melee often, and with the AC I'll lose from manifesting Expansion. Besides whatever I may acquire from maneuvers and stances in terms of AC bonuses, my AC is probably going to be ineffective most often. Thus Force Screen (+4 shield to AC) and Defensive Precognition (+1 or +2 insight to AC and saves) may be helpful in reducing how painfully easy it will be for enemies to hit my PC. I don't recall if the Swordsage's AC Bonus from 2nd-level is an insight bonus or just an unnamed bonus that, like the Monk's, isn't so much insight but mere instinct. Thicken Skin is a decent power to replace Defensive Precognition, but although its duration is longer it doesn't boost saves as DP does. If it seems I can't get my AC to a decent number at a decent cost in power points, I'll just go with Biofeedback and be able soak up a bit more damage at least.
Besides those psionic and psionic/maneuver-combo matters, I'm wondering what maneuvers and stances I should take. I'm intending to use some mix of Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, and Stone Dragon, but most likely I'll be focused in just one of those while dabbling a tad in one or two of the others. It didn't look like Shadowhand would be terribly useful/effective with my character, and our party is only 6 PCs (three of whom are likely to avoid melee) so White Raven is probably no good to us. Leadership is probably not a feat I want to take with this character.[/sblock]
After reading this thread, and seeing a friend play a swordsage in a brief 1st-4th level mini-campaign, I decided to try out a Tome of Battle character when we met for D&D again this Sunday. The previous DM moved out of town, so a different DM took over, the guy who played the swordsage in that game (with my halfling copper-dragon shaman, another player's half-orc barbarian, and another guy's human rogue). He decided to start a separate game, so we started making new characters, and he set the level to 10th and a 42-point-buy, max HP and 49,000 GP to spend. He's going to make things tough, using the same point buy and max HP setup for NPCs.
So I decided to try playing a swordsage this time. I know warblade would likely be too cheesy, and one player's already going to be a barbarian anyway, so I'm avoiding that potential cheese factory. Likewise with regards to the more abusive maneuvers and feats, far as I know, I'll avoid them if I can spot them.
Anyway, since I only have access to the ToB while I'm at the Sunday game with the DM who owns a copy, I wanted to ask for a bit of advice/assistance. Just a bit. Hong, if ya think I should move this query to a separate thread, just say the word.
[sblock]My Halfling Copper-Dragon Shaman 4 is being replaced with a Half-Giant (LA +1 race) Swordsage 5/Psychic Warrior 4. Probably going to be true neutral. Total ability scores from the point-buy, race, leveling, and items are Str 26 (+8), Dex 12 (+1), Con 16 (+3), Int 10 (+0), Wis 18 (+4), and Cha 10 (+0). HP 99, standard AC 20, touch AC 15, flat-footed AC 19, initiative +3, speed 30 ft., BAB +6/+1. I still need to name the guy, probably going to give him a background on Athas if there's any way he could've been astrally or ethereally transported away from there by another fellow....
Other PCs are a Human Wizard (probably from Oerth), a Sun Elf Swashbuckler (probably from Faerun), an Orc Barbarian (dunno where from), a Human (I think?) Warmage/Healer/Mystic Theurge (probably from Faerun), and a Goblin Rogue (dunno where from, but he's a siege engineer, tinker, and alchemist; just a rogue for the skill points, and he doesn't want to be relying on magic artifice).
For my PC, I may or may not want to take a prestige class from Book of Nine Swords, Expanded Psionics Handbook, or Complete Psionic. All I'm sure of right now is that I'd really like a few more psionic feats/powers at some point and I intend to focus on stuff from the Book of Nine Swords. Just about any 3.5 WotC book is allowed in the campaign, except Unearthed Arcana, Magic of Incarnum, and probably just a few other exceptions.
My feats at present are Adaptive Style, Psionic Weapon (PsyWar1 bonus feat), Vital Recovery, Instant Clarity (PsyWar2 bonus feat, from Bo9S), Martial Study (Desert Wind style - Burning Brand learned - Tumble permanent class skill), and Deep Impact. Not sure yet if I should replace Martial Study (my 6th-level feat) with something else or just change the style/maneuver. I may swap Instant Clarity (Bo9S psionic feat) with Psionic Meditation if I can't make Instant Clarity work well with my maneuvers, since I may need to regain my psionic focus in battle more often than 3 times per day to remain effective (though the move action to do so at-will through PM may cut into my effectiveness or not).
Main abilities so far are Powerful Build, Naturally Psionic, Stomp psi-like ability, two bonus feats, swordsage AC Bonus (Wis), Quick to Act (+2 initiative), Discipline Focus (undetermined as of yet), a few psionic powers, 13 power points, and a handful of martial maneuvers/stances. Intended disciplines for use are Desert Wind (likely secondary), Diamond Mind (maybe primary), Setting Sun (not sure), and Stone Dragon (maybe primary). I haven't looked at the other Swordsage disciplines yet except Shadowhand, which isn't likely to fit my character well so probably gonna ignore it.
Armed with a keen +1 large greatsword of ghost touch (save myself a feat and be able to hit annoying spirit/ether critters), a +1 large composite longbow (+8 Strength to damage, my backup since I can't fly under my own power), an ordinary large spiked gauntlet (in case I'm grappled or somesuch), a +1 mithril shirt of light fortification (...I fear the crits this DM may unleash), a +4 belt of giant's strength (I'm one of the 2 frontline PCs), a +2 periapt of wisdom (Will saves are important, my swordsage AC needs it, and my skills need it), a +1 cloak of resistance (obvious reasons), and a paltry few basic supplies. If I really need some more cash for an item, I may swap out the Keen quality on my greatsword, and instead take the Ghost Strike psionic feat in place of Martial Study.
I can't remember if using Instant Clarity to regain Psionic Focus is a free action, or a swift action, and I couldn't figure out or remember if it only works at the end of the maneuver it is used with. I was thinking about manifesting Psionic Lion's Charge and then using the 2nd or 3rd level Desert Wind boost (I forget its name) that grants an extra attack during a full-attack action (I recall the maneuver's duration being 'until end of turn'), but with -2 on the attack rolls (essentially like a melee version of Rapid Shot). Now I can't remember either if Instant Clarity is strictly limited to once per round (I do know it's limited to 3 uses per day). Psionic Lion's Charge is a swift action to manifest, and I don't recall if that Desert Wind maneuver is also a swift action or not; if they're both swifts, then I can't combine them in one turn.
I basically wanted to do this: First round of combat, use the Desert Wind maneuver I can't recall the name of; charge at an enemy; manifest Psionic Lion's Charge; attack once, expend Psionic Focus for Psionic Weapon's extra damage; use Instant Clarity to regain Psionic Focus; make my iterative attack, expending Psionic Focus again for Deep Impact to make it a touch attack; use Instant Clarity again to regain PF; make my extra attack from the maneuver, expend PF again for Psionic Weapon; use Instant Clarity again to regain PF for use next round.
Basically go all-out to pulverize a Big Bad in one round, or at least seriously maim them, and generally draw the remaining foes' attention to me rather than the less-threatening (and more fragile) casters, rogue, and swashbuckler. Besides, I got Vital Recovery and Adaptable Style to help myself heal and recover maneuvers quickly, at least once per encounter, and one of the party's casters is a Healer/Warmage/Mystic Theurge (yes, a logic-breaking combo of pacifistic support and raw destruction) anyway. I am guessing that my first conceived tactic is probably not viable in the rules, but I don't have the Book of Nine Swords myself to check now that I'm home.
An alternative tactic I'm considering is Dissolving Weapon (+4d6 acid on next attack) manifested in the round before I attack, then charging in and using a Strike maneuver of some sort (maybe Burning Brand?) in combination with that acid damage and Psionic Weapon (+2d6 damage). But I'm not sure it'll be worthwhile, considering the standard action manifestation time of Dissolving Weapon.
If both that and Psionic Lion's Charge prove ineffective combos with my Swordsage maneuvers, I may just go with Concealing Amorpha as my 2nd-level power or just lower my Psychic Warrior level to 2nd while boosting my Swordsage level to 7th. But I really wanted to give 3.5 psionics a try while I'm actually playing a 3.5 game for a change, so I'm hoping I can make an effective combo of psi + martial strikes/boosts.
For my 1st-level powers I'm going with Expansion and two other powers from amongst Biofeedback, Force Screen, Grip of Iron, Defensive Precognition, Offensive Precognition, and Offensive Prescience. Animal Affinity is of little use to me, so I'm not considering it; +2 AC from Dex or Wis wouldn't help much, and I don't have the manifester level to augment it enough for +4 from boosting both scores. Most likely I'm going to go with Force Screen and Offensive Prescience, but I'm not sure. Considering my PC is a very muscular half-giant and I'll be using Expansion, my grapple check modifier will already be +18 to +22, so Grip of Iron's +4 may be a waste, but combined with a Stone Dragon maneuver or two my PC might be a very effective grappler, but I dunno (I don't have the feats to spare for Improved Unarmed Strke or Improved Grapple, most likely, so I'd likely suffer AoOs and take some punishment whenever I start a grapple).
My AC is usually going to suck or be mediocre (at present, it looks like I'll have AC 20 most of the time; +5 from a mithril shirt of light fortification, +1 Dex, +4 Wis as a Swordsage), especially if I charge into melee often, and with the AC I'll lose from manifesting Expansion. Besides whatever I may acquire from maneuvers and stances in terms of AC bonuses, my AC is probably going to be ineffective most often. Thus Force Screen (+4 shield to AC) and Defensive Precognition (+1 or +2 insight to AC and saves) may be helpful in reducing how painfully easy it will be for enemies to hit my PC. I don't recall if the Swordsage's AC Bonus from 2nd-level is an insight bonus or just an unnamed bonus that, like the Monk's, isn't so much insight but mere instinct. Thicken Skin is a decent power to replace Defensive Precognition, but although its duration is longer it doesn't boost saves as DP does. If it seems I can't get my AC to a decent number at a decent cost in power points, I'll just go with Biofeedback and be able soak up a bit more damage at least.
Besides those psionic and psionic/maneuver-combo matters, I'm wondering what maneuvers and stances I should take. I'm intending to use some mix of Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, and Stone Dragon, but most likely I'll be focused in just one of those while dabbling a tad in one or two of the others. It didn't look like Shadowhand would be terribly useful/effective with my character, and our party is only 6 PCs (three of whom are likely to avoid melee) so White Raven is probably no good to us. Leadership is probably not a feat I want to take with this character.[/sblock]
Heh. I guess I have a low threshold of wackiness when it comes to powergaming. Our whole group is like that, in fact. Even the dwarf tank was a very straightforward fighter/barbarian build; he just happened to have Melee Weapon Mastery, Slashing Flurry and lots of magic items optimised for fighting Kyuss spawn.Satori said:
I did get a couple of custom items to aid in twinking: swift-action true strike 1/day on the sword, for +30000 gp, and a nerfed heartseeker amulet (MIC) for +3000 gp. The nerf was in making it a standard action instead of a swift action to activate.
The former was very useful, allowing me to max Power Attack/diamond nightmare blade on monsters with fairly high ACs (40-50). I don't think it was broken for the price; I looked on it essentially as a way of ensuring I could showboat in a tough fight, 1/day. I could still use the PA/DNB combo effectively without it, just on lower ACs (<35) and with slightly less PA damage. In the REALLY tough fight (Dragotha, AC 58) it didn't help, because then the Concentration check became the limiting factor.
By contrast, I got to use the touch attack item once. Giving up a std action to activate is a big hit.
It's more that it was the buildup to the final encounter, and the module actually encourages the DM to let the players get as much stuff as they can. You get a MOUNTAIN of treasure after killing Dragotha -- something like 1.2 MILLION gp worth. Since the end of the world is coming up, as well as the end of the adventure path, you might as well spend it.Nifft said:I think this says something very significant about high-level play.
-- N
Magepoint, IIRC, is pretty much there for the sole purpose of giving your characters a home base where they can rest/resurrect/resupply in between modules. The DM basically said we could buy anything in the DMG and MIC in between killing Dragotha and going to Alhaster, but no crafting of custom items (including adding stuff to existing items). I took the opportunity to get 8 scrolls of wish, for the inherent bonuses.
Hong,
Thanks for posting your notes about Bo9S in play. After reading your comments I decided to buy the book and I'm really pleased with it. I'm going to include encounters with a crusader and with a warblade in my next couple of sessions and see if it whets the appetites of the players. I think one of them, in particular, would enjoy adding some warblade levels to his khopesh-using trip-master fighter.
Thanks for posting your notes about Bo9S in play. After reading your comments I decided to buy the book and I'm really pleased with it. I'm going to include encounters with a crusader and with a warblade in my next couple of sessions and see if it whets the appetites of the players. I think one of them, in particular, would enjoy adding some warblade levels to his khopesh-using trip-master fighter.
Jeez mang, the game's been over for a week. Hey, I bet you're great with birthdays too! HAW HAW!
Ahem. Anyway, crusaders. They're a tricky class to play, IME, since you can never be sure which maneuvers are available and the bookkeeping is rather complex. Still, in the hands of a smart player they can be damn-near impossible to kill. I've DMed a dwarf crusader for a few sessions, and last session he copped a critical hit for 120 points. He was at -ve hp, but his Stone Power and delayed damage kept him going. Amazing.
Warblade is a lot easier. You're basically a fighter or barb with a few extra powers per fight. One thing to be careful about is that you don't get sucked in by the Int-based abilities; pumping Int at the expense of other stats won't usually do much good.
Can't remember if I mentioned this, but if you're going to use swordsages, I've found that they make heavy use of swift/immediate actions (this is true of all the ToB classes to some extent, but the SS in particular). This makes for some interesting tactical conundrums, especially if you add items from the Magic Item Compendium (lots of swift/immediate activation items).
Ahem. Anyway, crusaders. They're a tricky class to play, IME, since you can never be sure which maneuvers are available and the bookkeeping is rather complex. Still, in the hands of a smart player they can be damn-near impossible to kill. I've DMed a dwarf crusader for a few sessions, and last session he copped a critical hit for 120 points. He was at -ve hp, but his Stone Power and delayed damage kept him going. Amazing.
Warblade is a lot easier. You're basically a fighter or barb with a few extra powers per fight. One thing to be careful about is that you don't get sucked in by the Int-based abilities; pumping Int at the expense of other stats won't usually do much good.
Can't remember if I mentioned this, but if you're going to use swordsages, I've found that they make heavy use of swift/immediate actions (this is true of all the ToB classes to some extent, but the SS in particular). This makes for some interesting tactical conundrums, especially if you add items from the Magic Item Compendium (lots of swift/immediate activation items).
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