Bo9S

[Scribble]

I must have missed all those posts where you played this guy from 1st to 3rd level.

It looks to me (from the outside, not having seen all those posts) like you just built a 3rd level guy, paid no "price", and want a way to circumvent a prerequisite.

Take a look at the PHB-II retraining rules. That should clear up when you're allowed to take feats etc.

Cheers, -- N

I didn't make this guy.

I was just interested in the idea, since I didn't see anywhere in the rules indicating taking a feat before you met the prereq (and meeting it later) was invalid.

I'd see it as a DM judgment call. I'd allow it, simply because as stated before the person would pay the price.

I don't have PHB-II care to elaborate?

 

[Scribble]

That's because the magic item allows you to meet the prerequisite at the time you select the feat. And as noted in the rules, you lose the use of a feat once you cease to meet its prerequisites. So once you lose the magic item or take it off, you cannot use the feat anymore until you meet the prerequisites again or get that magic item back for the same purpose.

You still had to be of sufficient skill or ability in order to train and learn the feat in-character at the time you took the feat. Once your prowess or strength or whatever diminishes from removing the magic doohickey that augmented it before, you find you just don't have the strength, accuracy, finesse, or smarts to do that kind of thing anymore.

But you could also say you understand the basic concepts involved, you just don't have the skill (BAB) to pull it off yet. But you're working on it.

 

[Asmor]

I don't see any ambiguity.

You choose a feat when you gain a level. To choose a feat, you must meet its prerequisites.

Where's the ambiguity?

 

[Arkhandus]

There isn't any. Scribble just thinks it should be allowable to let folks choose any feats they want to, whenever they want to, so they can use them as soon as they actually do meet the prerequisites at some unknown point in the future. :\


Look. I've watched lots of martial arts movies and shows. That doesn't mean that if I were to get into a lot of street brawls, that I would at some point afterwards be able to duplicate some kung fu moves just because I've gotten more experience in other kinds of combat in the interrim. Doesn't matter if I tried real hard to learn the moves previously when I was too slow, too weak, and too uncoordinated to do so at the time.

I'd still need to find someone to teach me the moves after I've finally developed my general reflexes and combat ability further. I'll definitely botch it up otherwise, and when I try to use some judo throw or kung fu counterattack, I'll just end up doing it wrong in only a loose imitation of the move, accomplish nothing, and get stabbed or bludgeoned once I've lost the moment of opportunity for the martial arts move I attempted.

And since I didn't get the move right and didn't have an instructor there, if I were to survive I still wouldn't know what it was I messed up in the execution of the move, and I still wouldn't know how to do it right.

And heaven forbid if I were a D&D character trying some magic-altering feat with a spell. It'd probably blow up in my face or worse.

 

[MerricB]

Just a note:

As I've been distressed at the "I get to do nothing but healing" reaction of one of my players to his (enforced) Cleric in the Savage Tide campaign I'm running, I've decided to give him a level of Crusader and then move into the Crusader/Cleric prestige class.

Just as a Cleric 5/Crusader 1, he's able to do a bunch of cool things.
* Heal 2 hp each time he hits in melee
* Use any martial weapon
* Delay up to 5 hp of damage

Perform the following manuevers
* +2d6 damage and Ignore DR
* +2d6 damage and Ignore DR and Hardness
* Heal 1d6+5 when he hits
* Give allies +4 to attack when he hits
* +1d6 damage and target has speed 0 for one round.

I've got a feeling that his character is going to end up looking a lot like the 4e Cleric...

It'll allow him to have an active role in combat that actually allows him to feel like he's helping others at the same time as he takes on the bad guys...

Cheers!

 

[Scribble]

There isn't any. Scribble just thinks it should be allowable to let folks choose any feats they want to, whenever they want to, so they can use them as soon as they actually do meet the prerequisites at some unknown point in the future. :\

Not necessarily. I'm simply saying I thought the argument was interesting, because there's nothing implicitly saying you have to take a feat as soon as it's offered... What if you use the training rules? What if it takes you into the next level to find someone to teach you how to do the feat?

Shrug. I've never been a rules layer, nor have I ever enjoyed playing rules lawyer games... If something works and contributes to fun, then it stays.

Look. I've watched lots of martial arts movies and shows. That doesn't mean that if I were to get into a lot of street brawls, that I would at some point afterwards be able to duplicate some kung fu moves just because I've gotten more experience in other kinds of combat in the interrim. Doesn't matter if I tried real hard to learn the moves previously when I was too slow, too weak, and too uncoordinated to do so at the time.

I'd still need to find someone to teach me the moves after I've finally developed my general reflexes and combat ability further. I'll definitely botch it up otherwise, and when I try to use some judo throw or kung fu counterattack, I'll just end up doing it wrong in only a loose imitation of the move, accomplish nothing, and get stabbed or bludgeoned once I've lost the moment of opportunity for the martial arts move I attempted.

Stop trying to apply real world mumbo jumbo to D&D... In D&D you can multiclass anytime you go up a level... You could be a Barbarian fighting in a swamp in the middle of nowhere and suddenly th next day you're also a wizard. I mean come on man... Training rules are optional.

Also I don't agree with your statement. I have a friend who studies martial arts. He's also very small. He knows how to do everything, and is very technically proficient... He just isn't really strong enough to accomplish much of it.

I have no doubt in my mind that if he put some muscle on, he'd be a force to be reckoned with.

And since I didn't get the move right and didn't have an instructor there, if I were to survive I still wouldn't know what it was I messed up in the execution of the move, and I still wouldn't know how to do it right.

Good argument for training rules, but they're optional.

And heaven forbid if I were a D&D character trying some magic-altering feat with a spell. It'd probably blow up in my face or worse.

No rules for that.

 

[Scribble]

Just a note:

As I've been distressed at the "I get to do nothing but healing" reaction of one of my players to his (enforced) Cleric in the Savage Tide campaign I'm running, I've decided to give him a level of Crusader and then move into the Crusader/Cleric prestige class.

Just as a Cleric 5/Crusader 1, he's able to do a bunch of cool things.
* Heal 2 hp each time he hits in melee
* Use any martial weapon
* Delay up to 5 hp of damage

Perform the following manuevers
* +2d6 damage and Ignore DR
* +2d6 damage and Ignore DR and Hardness
* Heal 1d6+5 when he hits
* Give allies +4 to attack when he hits
* +1d6 damage and target has speed 0 for one round.

I've got a feeling that his character is going to end up looking a lot like the 4e Cleric...

It'll allow him to have an active role in combat that actually allows him to feel like he's helping others at the same time as he takes on the bad guys...

Cheers!

I have a feeling the 4e rules will be similar for cleric... I think that little thing the cleric did when he got a crit on the dragon was either a stance, or just a cleric special ability...