D&D General Bob World Builder Recreates WOTC's "Do You Like Me?" Survey!

[Parmandur]

Kyle also said they’d publish a list of content standards for their own material since problematic content was something they said they were concerned about and they shouldn’t try to hold someone to a standard they aren’t meeting themselves (paraphrasing). I honestly forget if they ever published this. I couldn’t find anything immediately in a 15 second Google search but it may be out there somewhere and I just failed to find it.

They have not yet, that was on their to do schedule same as older editions as of last September.

 

[Mistwell]

Thanks for gaslighting me.

That's not what the term gaslighting means, and it's not OK for you to misuse that term as a weapon like you just tried to do. I am not calling you in any way crazy. I am saying I disagree with the view that you plainly stated, and gave good reasons why.

Relentless positivity when it goes to far is when people start actively "fake news" or "clickbaiting" anything they disagree with.

I strongly disagree. Almost all clickbaiting sources to negativity. PARTICULARLY on this topic of D&D fandom, almost every single clickbait article sources to doom and gloom about Hasbro, or WOTC, or D&D. It is very rare to see any sort of clickbait which is optimistic about Hasbro, or WOTC, or D&D. Same with fake news - the extent of the investigators sent to look into the magic cards, drops in sales of D&D, AI stuff, some of the OGL stuff, all of that was fake news sourcing to people being relentlessly negative about Hasbro, WOTC, and/or D&D.

In 5E terms we've seen that with the movie, bookscan and Hasbros financial reports.

I totally disagree and you know well my disagreement with you on those topics. You were wrong on the movie and I stand by that and it has nothing to do with positivity. You were wrong on the financial reports and I feel I pretty well proved that and you backed away. I can see now why you're coming in hot on this topic though - it's you that you are referring to about negativity I guess?

You se ot on other hobbies and with sone forums in 4E. Anyone with different opinion gets shouted down and only "positive" opinions are allowed. Anything negative is fake news, brushed aside or ignored.

Nobody "shouts down" negative opinions, you just react very poorly to any push back on your negative opinions and have engaged as a matter of course of speaking with absolute authority on a number of topis which, once pressed, you admit you had no experience or background in whatsoever besides being a game with speculation. And you certainly never were shouted down - you blustered ahead anyway on those topics even after it was apparent you were substituting amateur opinion for facts.

If you disagree, show me one time you were actually shouted down - or anyone here for that matter - for expressing a negative opinion?

You're entitled to your negative opinion all you want. You're not entitled to be free of criticism for expressing those negative opinions which others disagree with, and disagreement isn't shouting you down.

At least until the negative becomes such a thing you can't deny or minimize it.

If you present a negative that's not doom and glooming it if the source is good or its direct from Hasbro. Adding additional commentary is.

So depending on the results of Bob's survey and how he presents it if the results are positive or negative depends if it's clickbait or not.

Not at all. Bobs sample is by definition going to be MASSIVELY smaller than WOTC and also skew towards "I want to stick it to WOTC" people. We know this without even looking - complainers on message boards and YouTube are not representative of the general marketplace of players of D&D, but that's where this poll is being advertised. Not direct to players, but only in source which already skew towards complaints. There is a huge thread on it on TheRPGSite for example - composed nearly 100% of OSR players who despise WOTC and don't even play 5e.

Other places use a click bait thumbnail but the video for example is fairly neutral.

And even if someone has a negative opinion so what? It's theor opinion. If it's always negative or they only do negative titles that's a bit different.

I didn't say anything about not having a negative opinion. I pushed back on your claim that positivity is almost as bad as negativity - with reasons you never responded to.

 

[Zardnaar]

That's not what the term gaslighting means, and it's not OK for you to misuse that term as a weapon like you just tried to do. I am not calling you in any way crazy. I am saying I disagree with the view that you plainly stated, and gave good reasons why.



I strongly disagree. Almost all clickbaiting sources to negativity. PARTICULARLY on this topic of D&D fandom, almost every single clickbait article sources to doom and gloom about Hasbro, or WOTC, or D&D. It is very rare to see any sort of clickbait which is optimistic about Hasbro, or WOTC, or D&D. Same with fake news - the extent of the investigators sent to look into the magic cards, drops in sales of D&D, AI stuff, some of the OGL stuff, all of that was fake news sourcing to people being relentlessly negative about Hasbro, WOTC, and/or D&D.



I totally disagree and you know well my disagreement with you on those topics. You were wrong on the movie and I stand by that and it has nothing to do with positivity. You were wrong on the financial reports and I feel I pretty well proved that and you backed away. I can see now why you're coming in hot on this topic though - it's you that you are referring to about negativity I guess?


Nobody "shouts down" negative opinions, you just react very poorly to any push back on your negative opinions and have engaged as a matter of course of speaking with absolute authority on a number of topis which, once pressed, you admit you had no experience or background in whatsoever besides being a game with speculation. And you certainly never were shouted down - you blustered ahead anyway on those topics even after it was apparent you were substituting amateur opinion for facts.

If you disagree, show me one time you were actually shouted down - or anyone here for that matter - for expressing a negative opinion?

You're entitled to your negative opinion all you want. You're not entitled to be free of criticism for expressing those negative opinions which others disagree with, and disagreement isn't shouting you down.



Not at all. Bobs sample is by definition going to be MASSIVELY smaller than WOTC and also skew towards "I want to stick it to WOTC" people. We know this without even looking - complainers on message boards and YouTube are not representative of the general marketplace of players of D&D, but that's where this poll is being advertised. Not direct to players, but only in source which already skew towards complaints. There is a huge thread on it on TheRPGSite for example - composed nearly 100% of OSR players who despise WOTC and don't even play 5e.


I didn't say anything about not having a negative opinion. I pushed back on your claim that positivity is almost as bad as negativity - with reasons you never responded to.

No you appealed to the fact you were a lawyer then declared yourself right Hasbro had a bad year and they wrote off 25 million on the movie.

Movie only made 200 million at the box office on a 150 million budget.btgats a flop at the box office by any normal metric one uses.

My negativity is publicly available information from Hasbro themselves.

And I did specify it's not exactly Doom and gloom. Hasbro has a bad year so what? It's not going to collapse the company.


That's what I mean by relentless positivity. We had prominent people devlear industry standards and reliable news sources as fake news and pseudo science. That was Variety, Hollywood reporter and industry standard movie projections which were out by around 10% in the movies case. That's within the ball park for projections imho.

That's what I'm referring to. I don't care about the spin Hasbro or a youtuuber puts on things but pulling the fake news card on reliable sources because it conflicts with your narrative.

Not sure if you've missed sone conversations about various geek movies. I've been fairly spot on about if they've been a hit or not. I was very close on the HaT opening weekend gross.

I'm not a savant at this just follow the box office predictions from Hollywood themselves. It's publicly available information. Pseudoscience according to ENworld.

If you want to keep playing thus game pick some movie that is a culture war touchstone and I'll give you an opinion on it if it's a hit or nor or a rough guess at its opening box office a week or so before it opens.

 

[Umbran]

Mod note:
Guys, cut it out.

 

[Older Beholder]

That is not the criteria for what is or is not clickbait.

The title of the video is: ‘The player data WotC won’t show us’
If you don’t think that’s click bait, wait until you read number 8 on the list, it will shock you.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Deleted.

 

[SteveC]

As I read threads like this, it seems to me that "clickbait" is an accusation people use when they see something they don't agree with, and want to dismiss outright rather than discuss. Often that's based on seeing a title and not even checking out the content or the creator.

Bob has fun content. He has silly content. He recently had a video about making authentic-looking map props that made me harken back to being eight years old and doing the same thing for a pirate party. Sometimes he talks about the industry and gives his opinions on it. And then he goes on to post about surviving on D&D rations for three days.

 

[SlyFlourish]

That's the problem, we don't know if the result will be similar or not. Bob's not asking the same people or messaging via the same channels. Bob's survey cannot be used to predict WotC's answers because they aren't targeting the same group of people. You're getting the result of people who watch Bob's channel, nothing more.

And people from here. And people from my channel. And people from PDMs channel. And their groups of the passed it around.

 

[SlyFlourish]

Not really, no.

If a friend of yours breaks your trust, it's not on you to rebuild your trust in them. It's on your friend to rebuild your trust in them.

It's no different here. We bear zero responsibility for WotC's actions (or lack thereof). It's 100% on them to rebuild our trust in them.

Right. They threatened to destroy the 3PP ecosystem then backed off. But the fact that they threatened to do so is what broke the community's trust in WotC. To date, WotC has done almost nothing to try to regain the community's trust. The disaster that was the creator summit made things worse. Dropping the SRD into CC-BY was a stopgap to show they couldn't destroy the 3PP ecosystem, not an attempt to regain trust.

“If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less healed the wound.” ―Malcolm X

Yes, because WotC broke our trust. They 100% deserve all of it. Once they start trying to regain our trust as a community, then...and only then...does that stuff become uncalled for.

Yes, they do.

No, we don't. The community owes them exactly nothing.

I think you’re undervaluing how big a deal it was to release the 5.1 SRD into the Creative Commons. That was a big and irreversible move they probably didn’t have to do. I’m really glad they did.

 

[Remathilis]

And people from here. And people from my channel. And people from PDMs channel. And their groups of the passed it around.

Still a drop in the bucket compared to WotC's reach and therefore the scope of participants will be different.

The sources you named are those who are in-tune with the greater TTRPG community. WotC can hit people who only worry about D&D. There is overlap, but WotC can hit a larger net. And those people don't have the same opinions as those of us who follow the wider hobby.

My point is that Bob's results should not be used as a replacement for WotC's data, but it will be regardless. All those people who are spreading the word are going to write or vlog expansive analysis when it inevitably shows that people who are in-tune with the wider TTRPG community have strong thoughts on Wizards of the Coast and that will be used to extrapolate that WotC's survey got the same or comparable results and proceed to make dire predictions of doom to fuel the next round of clickbait.

You're going to have to forgive me if I don't take any analysis of this data from you, Bob, or anyone else seriously.