Bonus spell slots from magic items: When do you lose them?

[Taren Seeker]

Re: Re: Bonus spell slots from magic items: When do you lose them?

I think the only way to be fair about it is to treat prepared and spontaneous casters in the same way: when the item is removed, the bonus slots go away, but the number of spells cast does not.

Thus, a wizard who took off his ring of wizardry after casting 3 spells would still have cast 3 spells that day, but his maximum just lowered to the point where he might not be able to cast any more.

I would probably choose the spells lost randomly.

J

How is this the only way of treating them equally? If you play it where the caster knows which slots are extra then it's simple. The sorceror casts from those first, the mage can choose to cast from those first if they wish. The advantage of the sorceror here is the same one built into the class from the outset. I don't think that either class benefits more from the item than the other. The sorceror can cast way more spells of the few that he knows, while the wizard can cast a few less but has much greater variety.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Ridley:
the problem with that idea (understanding of course that iwas intended to be a bit "out there") is that in 3e spells are not memorized they are prepared. The wizard uses the prep time to "mostly cast" the spells he wants to use and takes the energy from his daily allotment. This is why it is possible to leave slots empty and prepare them later. If you lose slots, you have to lose prepared spells.

I respectfully disagree.

There is no such thing as "losing slots" as defined in the rules. We have rules for preparing spells. We have rules for how many spells of a particular level may be cast per day. That's it.

The concept that a specific spell sits in a specific slot, like my keys are in my front right pant pocket, does not exist under the rules as written. I concede it is a very natural and reasonable way of looking at the underlying "reality" that the rules model, but it is hardly the only way to go.

At the fundamental rules level, I don't think my way or your way of looking at it is better in any respect. However I do see this "slots" viewpoint actually creates more rules questions than it answers...

What happens we you step into an Antimagic Field? When you step out? What if you remove you Headband of Intellect? Put it back on? Is it the same thing? Do "slots" exist at all in an AMF? When a slot is forcibly emptied when can you reprepare? Do you need to sleep first? What if a slot is emptied by loss of a Headband, replaced, then you are hit by energy drain? Can you lose an empty slot to energy drain? Does the answer to any of these questions change if you left a slot empty on purpose?

Your answer needs ~5 paragraphs to explain what it actually means in play.

My answer is: Just stick to per day limits and play on. There is nothing more to think about.

Which is the better answer?

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: Re: Bonus spell slots from magic items: When do you lose them?

How is this the only way of treating them equally? If you play it where the caster knows which slots are extra then it's simple.

Consider the ring of wizardry.

Wizard wakes up, puts it on, chooses a bunch of spells to put into those slots - then casts them. (Mage armor, other long-lasting stuff). Then he takes it off and puts on a different ring. He gets the benefit of both rings.

Sorcerer wakes up, puts on the ring, casts a bunch of spells, then takes it off...and he suddenly has no more spells. Obviously they're not being treated equally.

Furthermore, treating them the way I suggested prevents your spellcasters from playing 'pass the ring' games to cheese out extra spellcasting. (Wizard puts it on, memorizes spells, casts them, gives to wizard 2, who does the same...then they give it to the sorc who wears it for the rest of the day.)

J