Book of Vile Darkness

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ForceUser said:
Actually, I think it would be kind of cool if BoVD was so graphic that we couldn't talk about it here for fear of upsetting Eric's Grandmother. I think D&D is due, I think the gaming community can handle it, and I think that an entire line of "mature" D&D products would be fantastic. I enjoy broaching mature subjects in my games. They're not for everyone, but they are for me.
Still, we know that it won't be. Monte himself has stated on these boards that it's pretty tame, and the copy editor, or whomever it was that made that first advert, was pretty grossly misrepresenting the actual contents of the book.

Y'know, it's abit surprising that nobody has pulled up a link to that post yet, in the 7 pages of this thread...
 

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Monte At Home said:
"Prostitution?" Does it actually say that in the catalog copy? Who writes that $#%$?

If I wrote a book called The Book of Vile Darkness, I'd fill it with the most hideously evil spells, feats, prestige classes, magic items, artifacts, monsters and NPCs that you'd ever want to put in a D&D game. I'd include rules for the benefits evil cultists get from sacrifices, new poisons, diseases, and so on.

I'd also include plenty of DM advice on running evil villains, villainous plots, evil organizations, and so on. I'd include a little, but not a lot of, discussion on running evil PCs.

Oh, and did I mention that the "monsters" that I'd put in there would include all the major archdevils and demon princes? And their various minions? And those that revere them almost like gods?

That's what I would do. If I wrote a book called the Book of Vile Darkness.
 

Ok,

...I guess I was lucky when it came to my start playing D&D, as it was my mother's idea after a few people from my elementary school told her I needed a hobby to challange my intellect and creative desires. I've been playing D&D, in one form or another, since Jan. of 1980, which was roughly four months before my 7th birthday.

This was, obviously, during a significant portion of anti-D&D hype, much of which was erroneous urban legend that has as much basis in fact as the world of Conan is an archaeological representation of a previously unknown, real world, culture. ;)

Anyhow, I think having a book aimed at adults is a good thing for the hobby - we are getting older - and just because that book is aimed at older people does not mean it should harm the overall industry, or this particular genre, just because younger players should not see the book.

Why?

Simply put, it has not harmed the movie industry or fictional novels.

Kids read Harry Porter, even after some fundamentalists complained about it being a tutorial for devil worship, or other such nonsense - normally those people wouldn't buy the book anyway, so there is no loss to the market.

In general most anti-D&D hype is based on rumor, myth, and false information - or just plainly ignored facts about the cases people talk about.

I'm sure many of us can remember a certain movie with Tom Hanks, which he doesn't talk about much as it was a rather badly acted part for him, which was based on a real life missing persons case that, in the end, turned out to have nothing to do with the game of D&D and was, instead, just a messed up portion of the life of a person who played D&D. People didn't look at all the facts, but instead looked at what they wanted to see and used that.

Children can't buy R-rated movies, if the store is run properly, without an adults permission - nor can kids under 13 see a PG-13 movie, if the store is run properly.

Those movies are still made, they do not impact the movie industry negatively and, thusly, it should not hurt the hobby anymore then it already does.

People who refer to D&D as satanic, or what not, will already refer to it as such and do not need a book to fuel their fires - they already use incorrect information, false statements, and general stupidity to make those inferences already.

For the record, I'm not calling anyone on this board stupid, I just do not agree with the actions of a certain, large number of fundamentalists who spout of like broken records.

Funny thing is, when you look at both my current D&D groups, we've a health does of various religions; we've a handful of mormans (some jack and some regular), a few catholics, a couple southern baptists, a hedonists, a wiccan, and myself (a Neitzschean Taoist Deist, kinda. ;) ).

Anyhow, more to the point, it is a game and the people who would complain about it, call it evil, or what not would do so without the Book of Vile Darkness being published, so not publishing it for this reason is bad in my opinion.

Children shouldn't see things of an mature nature, so it's good that it has the 'Mature Content' label - Sword and Sorcery Studios has items with nudity and no such labels, we've heard no outcry about that (one item in question is the topless 'wood' elf female in their Scarred Lands DM Screen booklet).

Just my opinion though, no more right or wrong then anyone elses.
 

Friadoc said:
Sword and Sorcery Studios has items with nudity and no such labels, we've heard no outcry about that (one item in question is the topless 'wood' elf female in their Scarred Lands DM Screen booklet).

You have missed some fun topics then :)

There is one d20 company that can't be discussed with the standard argument over its artwork coming up and being debated.

FD
 

Ok, having read Monte's post, I can't POSSIBLY credit the doomsayers with having any credibility whatsoever. It's pretty clear what he included and, more importantly, what he INTENDED to include. There was never anything about sodomy or the biting off of nipples, as nathanael had declared there would be.
 

Concerning the media: newspapers and television news will not do a story on a book that has been published that people might find offensive. They will do a story on a book that people have found offensive and are now complaining about loudly. And even then, there has to be something else newsworthy about it, because heck, some folks will complain about anything. So I think until we see a violent crime tied to the book or until someone sues someone over it, we are unlikely to see press backlash.

That said, I will step up and say that my number one, purely selfish, concern is that the BoVD will either a) deal with too many sexual issues (which apparently Monte has said it will not) or have too much blatent female nudity (which I am guessing it will), and as a result of that b) create an even more hostile environment for female players. I simply don't want to see rules for prostitution or any sort of ritual sex for D&D. It's gratuitous and drives would-be gamers away from the hobby. We had the wandering hooker subtable in the first edition DMG and that was quite enough thanks!

Does this make me a prude? I doubt it, considering the size of my XXXenophile CCG collection ;) I just have my own interest in keeping D&D female-friendly.

Balsamic Dragon
 

I sincerely doubt that the female nudity will be more exploitative than the scantily-clad fantasy ladies already are--in proportion, of course.

And I REALLY don't expect to see ritual sex described in this book.
 

Hakkenshi said:
Ok, having read Monte's post, I can't POSSIBLY credit the doomsayers with having any credibility whatsoever. It's pretty clear what he included and, more importantly, what he INTENDED to include. There was never anything about sodomy or the biting off of nipples, as nathanael had declared there would be.

So what you are saying is that you doubt nathanael's credibility. I don't know if you are calling me a doomsayer, but I am concerned. I was perfectly aware of the content of Monte's post and cited it several times. Further, I said I am reserving judgement on whether it lives up to my worries when I have a copy in hand.

Now tell me I don't have any credibility. If you are not ready to, put the big paintbrush away, okay. :p
 

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