Boots of S&S, Expeditious Retreat

[kreynolds]

I'm sorry.

It's ok. Nobody's perfect.

I'm totally kidding, of course. Actually, the ER and flying thing bugged me for a while there as well.

 

[IceBear]

I'm sorry. I just can't see how a spell like Expeditious Retreat would enhance the flying speed of a creature. Even if they fly naturally (like pixies), it's not their feet doing the moving; it's their wings. I know some creatures can fly in other ways (like Will o Wisps), but IMHO, Expeditious Retreat should only affect a creature's land speed.

Because I take that passage about moving your feet twice as fast in the PHB as "fluff" (the spell descriptions are written with the assumption that the caster will be a humanoid being). The SRD just mentions doubling your movement rate (which I take to mean double normal movement rate). I'm pretty sure there was a Sage response to back me up on this, but given people's opinions of the Sage that's probably not going to help my cause

IceBear

 

[Berk]

I'm pretty sure there was a Sage response to back me up on this, but given people's opinions of the Sage that's probably not going to help my cause

Most of the people treat Skip as if everytime he makes a ruling he crumbled their entire prescious little world. It's kinda funny to see people blow up and overload everytime Skip says or does something.

 

[Hejdun]

casting the same spell twice on a person wouldn't stack.

Where does it say that?

 

[melkoriii]

What kreynolds said

ER doesn't affect someone under the effect of a fly spell, but would if that creature could naturally fly.

ER does not stack with the boots.

IceBear

WHy?

Where is this stated?
Spell Fly gives you a Flight speed of 90' (60' if in Medium-heavy armor)

From SRD

Fly
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Travel 3
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The spell’s subject can fly with a speed of 90 feet (60 feet if the creature wears medium or heavy armor). The subject can fly up at half speed and descend at double speed. The flying subject’s maneuverability rating is good. Using the fly spell requires as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears.
Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject drops 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also falls in this way if the fly spell is dispelled.

States you can charge but not run so x4-x5 are out but Double move it fine.

From SRD

Boots of Striding and Springing
The wearer of these boots moves at double his or her normal speed. In addition to this striding ability, these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. The wearer can jump with a +10 competence bonus to Jump checks, and the wearer’s jumping distance is not limited by his or her height.
Caster Level: 3rd; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, expeditious retreat, jump; Market Price: 6,000 gp; Weight: 1 lb.

Dont see anything in there that would stop it being used with Fly.

From SRD

Expeditious Retreat
Transmutation
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Travel 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: The character
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)
The character's speed and maximum jumping distances both double. These benefits count as enhancement bonuses.

Double the characters speed. If the Fly spell gives you a Fly speed then with this spell you double it.

From what I see you need to cast Fly first and have the boots one first before casting ER.

THe Boots say normal speed. So that would be unenhansted speed, but ER just says double your speed nothing else.

 

[IceBear]

I think it was in the FAQ or Sage response. Since ER doesn't work on supernatural speed (I know that's in there about the monk) then it wouldn't work on the ability to fly as granted by magic.

Basically, ER lets your "movement limbs" move faster. If you don't like it, let it stack - it just doesn't fit with how I see the ER spell working.

IceBear

 

[Archer]

There are new types of named bonuses now. Temporary and Movement.

This discussion is based around the new named bonus "movement."

Monk speed over 50 is a movement bonus. ER is a movement bonus, Boots of SS are a movement bonus, Fly is a movement bonus. Movement bonuses do not stack just like any other named bonus. A movement bonus that "doubles" increases the natural movement (Ex) modes of a creature including fly, climb, burrow, swim and regular. Fly adds Fly 90 (average) (Sp) to a creature's movement modes. Sp and Su are not natural movement modes. All this will be clear in the 3.5 rules update.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Gee, I hope they update Polymorph (again), then...

"I polymorph into an orc and walk up to the main gate."
"Sorry, walking is now an (Ex) ability - you don't gain those when you polymorph..."

-Hyp.

 

[Demon Knight]

Since when is walking extraordinary?

Poor Flounder. His dreams of being polymorphed into an orc so he can walk on land have been shattered.

 

[Hypersmurf]

According to Archer, since 3.5...

-Hyp.